What If We Responded to Sexual Assault by Limiting Men’s Freedom Like We Limit Women’s?

Calls for Men to Be Blindfolded in Public
In response to claims that men are unable to restrain themselves from committing rape if they see women in skimpy clothing, members of law enforcement agencies around the country have called for men to blindfold themselves when they are in places where they might encounter a female wearing a tank top or a short skirt.

“For years, we have been told that men don’t understand how to respond to the sight of a woman wearing, say, gym clothes – that as far as they are concerned, if they can see the outline of her body, then that’s an invitation to sex that they are simply unable to refuse,” said one police chief. “If that’s true, then we have no choice. We want women to be safe, and there is apparently no way for some men to reasonably restrain their own behavior once they catch a glimpse of cleavage, so all men will have to cover their eyes while working out, going to bars or clubs, or relaxing at the beach.”

Popular radio “shock jocks” Skeezer and the Gooch have gone even further, arguing that men should be blindfolded at all times while in public, on the grounds that “it’s not just skimpy outfits, some dudes get turned on by random stuff like women wearing athletic jerseys and sneakers,” making situation-specific blindfolding insufficient to preserve women’s safety.

Unwise to Allow Men to Go Out Alone at Night?
A local coalition of religious leaders, concerned about recent studies showing that an average of 6% of men will commit a sexual assault during their lifetime, and that nearly all sexual assaults are committed by men on their own or in groups, are urging parents not to let their sons go out at night unless they are accompanied by a mother, sister, or trusted female friend.

Mens’ groups have responded with concern, pointing out that this may leave some men unable to complete the tasks of daily life, such as going to school, working, or socializing.

In response, the religious leaders said that they “understand that this may be an inconvenience for some men,” but that “the minor difficulties this imposes on men are nothing when compared to the lifelong horror sexual assaults cause their victims.” “Really,” said the organization’s leader, “almost any limitation on men’s freedom is better than the risk that they might sexually assault someone. That’s just common sense.”

Time to Admit That Some Jobs May Just Be Too Dangerous for Men?
Recent allegations that Jimmy Savile raped numerous children while working as a television presenter for the BBC, have led to widespread calls for television stations to avoid allowing men to do similar jobs.

“We know that not all men are rapists, and that some men can probably be trusted to present tv shows safely,” said the director of Televisions Within Borders, a professional group that promotes the welfare of TV hosts and the people they cover. “However, now we know that some men can’t. And why take the risk? There are plenty of qualified women who can do this job instead.”

Voices from the blogosphere agree. “You wouldn’t send a cocaine addict to do a Good Morning America segment about a big pile of cocaine,” said a blogger who calls himself “UltimateMindz.” “Letting men be TV presenters is basically the same thing.” That post has since been shared more than 180 times on twitter, and has garnered nearly 2000 Facebook “likes.”

Supporters of this movement point to the fact that there has not been a single recorded case of a football coach raping a child since all college football coaching staff were replaced by women after last year’s Penn State abuse scandal.

Deans of 25 prominent journalism schools have taken a more moderate position, however, urging television programs to do more segments on bodybuilders and military contractors – subjects who are seen as safe for male presenters to interact with because their physical strength leaves them less vulnerable to assault. That way, the deans argue in a widely-circulated letter, male presenters may be able to remain in their jobs, albeit in a role with less visibility and almost no opportunity for advancement.

(If you’re wondering where this post came from, see, e.g., here, here, here, and here.)

622 thoughts on “What If We Responded to Sexual Assault by Limiting Men’s Freedom Like We Limit Women’s?

      • That’s nice that you’re not a rapist. But, considering that most rapes are committed by people the victim knows, unless I know you REALLY FUCKING WELL, I have no surefire way of determining that you are, in fact, not a rapist.

        And since 1 in 6 American women are raped in their life time, (1 in 3 Canadian women), there’s a pretty fucking good chance that, at some point, I am going to get raped. I don’t know when or by whom, but, given these stats, it is VERY reasonable for me to take whatever precautions I can to try to make sure that I am not the 1 in 3 (in my country) that will be raped.

        “Do you think I’m overreacting? One in every six American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. I bet you don’t think you know any rapists, but consider the sheer number of rapes that must occur. These rapes are not all committed by Phillip Garrido, Brian David Mitchell, or other members of the Brotherhood of Scary Hair and Homemade Religion. While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is. Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. That means four in my graduating class in high school. One among my coworkers. One in the subway car at rush hour. Eleven who work out at my gym. How do I know that you, the nice guy who wants nothing more than companionship and True Love, are not this rapist?

        I don’t.”

        http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/phaedra%20starling

        • ?Where are you pulling your statistics from? I have between 50 and 100 female friends/acquaintances I talk to on a semi-regular basis. Only one has been sexually assaulted, and that was groping. Not rape.

          Wikipedia reports less than 600 rapes in Canada in 2010….

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

          Are there only 2,000 people in the nation? I’m failing to see your ‘1 in 3′ claim…

          Feel free to be as untrusting as you like. A rapist can’t rape you when you’re around other people, so if you’re only alone with people you trust and have properly vetted, you ‘should’ be fine.

          Please read my post. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I don’t throw out bullshit stats like ‘1 in 3 Canadian women have been raped.’ I can find a vague reference about a 1992 report of 1 in 3 women claiming to be sexually assaulted, but that’s different from rape.

          I also find a lot of statistics showing 6/8/9/10% (depending on what website you go to) of rape claims have been proven to be unfounded or untruthful. One of my best friends was accused of raping and impregnating a coworker of his. She lied. He had a vasectomy years ago, and he was sleeping on my couch the nights she said he assaulted her. She finally confessed that she was trying to ‘trap’ him because she was in love….

          I’m not victim blaming. I’m not saying some women cry wolf. What I *would* like to say is please don’t call me a rapist if I’m not one. Don’t punish the victim, I agree, but don’t punish the innocent either.

          • I have seen a lot of stats being thrown around… here is some info from a 2007 stats can report for everyone:

            Overall, individuals accused of sexual offences tended to be relatively older than persons accused of other violent crimes. Nevertheless, rates of sexual offending were highest among persons aged 12 to 17 (90 per 100,000 population), followed by 18 to 34 year olds (55 per 100,000 population) and 35 to 44 year olds (42 per 100,000 population).
            While females are disproportionately the victims of sexual offences, males are disproportionately the accused. According to 2007 police-reported data, 97% of persons accused of sexual offences were male, higher than the representation of males among persons accused of all other types of violent crime (78%).
            Victimization data suggest that most incidents of sexual assault are not formally reported, with less than 1 in 10 coming to the attention of police. According to victimization data, the rates of sexual assault remained stable in recent years, while police-reported data show a trend of steady decline in offences coming to the attention of law enforcement.
            In general, sexual offences are less likely to be cleared by police than other types of violent offences. In 2007, charges were laid in over a third of sexual offences reported to police compared to almost half of other types of violent crime

            And just to be clear, yes this refers to all forms sexual assault.
            @a man but not a rapist made a comment “…sexually assaulted, but that’s different from rape.” while maybe not intending to be offensive, it came off that way. it makes it sound as if you don’t recognize all forms sexual assault as problematic. It comes across as – “unless you were forcefully penetrated by a penis, it doesn’t count” Im not trying to bully you or turn this into a fight – just pointing out that words need to be chosen carefully so that your comments are not misunderstood.

          • If you look at the definitions of:

            Sexual harassment
            Sexual assault, and
            Rape

            Sexual assault can be as simple as one person smacking another person on the butt in an ‘atta boy’ fashion. Some people still see this as ok. Some don’t. Sexual assault can be serious, or it could be something somewhat* harmless. I use the asterisk because an ‘atta boy’ could result in awkwardness or problems in the short-term, but you’re not going to need years of therapy to cope.

            My big philosophy is this: Unless you have been raped, you are not a rape victim. Unless you have raped someone, you are not a rapist. In a Western culture of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ please don’t label me what I am not.

            I am a big fan of diligence. I will do my darndest not to rape or be raped, and you will do your darndest not to rape or be raped. If everyone is labeled as a ‘potential rapist’ or ‘potential murderer’ how will we ever be able to interact with one another as civilized people?

          • I understand the difference in terms. The point I’m trying to make is that the issue is not solely confined to rape : “the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse”. ALL sexual assault “any form of sexual contact without both parties’ voluntary consent” is an issue. By narrowly defining the issue to only incidences of “rape” you discount the experiences of all those who experienced sexual assault that did not result in sexual intercourse.

          • I completely understand. And I’m glad we’re talking. Because I’m seeing your point better, and I hope you see mine as well.

            All of these definitions are extremely vague. I’m sure you can give examples of sexual assault that are aggressive and scarring, while I can do the same with innocent misunderstandings. I’m in PR and Marketing, and have learned you can spin any statistic to say anything you like. Politicians are notorious for this. I just don’t want people to be quick to judge the worst in people, when there is more good out there than bad. Yes, a drop of oil can ruin a gallon of water, but still…

          • What you see as vague I see as all encompassing. The definition of Rape is far too narrow a term which is why the term “sexual assault” is more frequently used. Because everyone knows that the point at which a person feels scarred and violated does not only begin when they are forced into sexual intercourse with someone else. Any unwanted sexual contact is violating and can affect each person differently. For some, the act of being constantly given the “atta boy” pat on the ass as u call it is enough to cause them to quit jobs and have their lives changed dramatically due to the unwanted actions of another. I understand that for some this idea is not easily understood – please don’t think that in any way that statement is meant to question anyones intelligence etc. What I mean is that this type of behaviour is so ingrained in our society as being the “norm” and something that we should just brush off, that they don’t see it as an issue.

          • Now I like that comment, justme.

            To me, while the term has some problems with it, I see rape culture as encompassing all attitudes that relate to all aspects of sexual assault. Whether they are cat-calls, “innocent fun”, or physical acts.

            Much of the problem being discussed here is indeed a deeply ingrained social attitude. Some of it perhaps comes from a society of self. One where we become trained not to think about how others feel. To not consider the impact of our words.

            For all the gains we have made over the years, there does seem to be a bit of a backlash. I like to think of it as the death-throes of a patriarchal or kyriarchal society. They know that the world is changing around them and can’t handle it.

            That’s why I keep saying, and will continue to say, every single one of us needs to be more accountable for our actions and words. To be aware of what they mean, how certain words and actions do indeed enable sexual assault, normalise it, trivialise it.

            And oh yes, different people have different levels of tolerance to what I’ll call bad behaviour. Which is why, unless you know the person really well, and know how they respond, treat each person with care.

            It is a lesson I learned when I first entered the feminist world. I think I’ve said it here before, first listen. Second, listen some more. Engage. Think. Then discuss.

            The same applies to our general human interactions. Look for signs that so done is uncomfortable. Listen to what they are telling you. Look for the messages.

            As I have said many times, here and elsewhere, it is a huge problem, it is ingrained, but we can solve it step by step. Changing behaviour in small ways leads to big changes overall.

          • While I agree with your definition of “rape culture” many who are not familiar with the term may understand it to only refer to acts of unwanted intercourse. I was trying to be mindful of that when providing the definitions above and stating my preference for the term sexual assault.

            I am definitely on board with you in regards to being vigilant and always keeping tabs on our thoughts, words, actions….so many of us hold beliefs without questioning why we believe them, how we came to believe them, and if they are even true for us…and we fight for them out of…for lack of a better word at midnight, habit… I think this is the case with many of the people who have commented on this post

          • A wee lesson: if you respond to a post about stats with “of the people I know” or use wiki as your main reference point, just don’t.

            As for taking precautions, mansplainers, MRAs and general douchecanoes would be best advised to stay away from this dark alley. If you come down here, then don’t be surprised if your fragile ego is attacked.

            Or maybe those rules of taking precautions don’t apply to you.

          • dear “man”,
            if you truly don’t have any problem with the above article or if you truly have no intend for any misbehavior or if you accept that men should take the responsibility of this very serious issue, please behave according to that. But it seems that even you got little panic inside when a woman gives a lecture about women. The data or the statistics is not the matter here, the matter is this serious issue that everyone should pay attention, every government from every country should pay attention. Therefore if you are truly a “man”, don’t panic or don’t try to be smart here. Give your strength for this issue without arguing in silly points.

          • “A rapist can’t rape you when you’re around other people” – Uh, have you heard the recent news in India…. or the word “gang rape”?

          • I’m a woman. I haven’t been raped, but most of my female friends have. I’ve been non-consensually groped. I don’t know a woman who HASN’T been non-consensually groped.

            You have considerable selection bias. 1) How do you know a woman hasn’t been raped? It’s not like she’s going to wear a brand on her forehead. Not every woman tells all her male friends OH BY THE WAY I’VE BEEN RAPED. 2) risk factors for rape are intersectional with race and class. Women who are white and have money are less likely to be raped. If your friends are all rich white women and not poor and/or women of color, don’t use their luck to erase the rapes that are happening every day.

            Look at yourself right now. You are denying that rapes happen when we have statistics that say they do. When we have women’s experiences that say they do. Why are you doing this? You’re not a rapist, so why are you defending them?

            The piece in the OP isn’t intended as an attack on men. It’s a reversal of what women are told every day about rape. The proposed restrictions on men are all responses to real restrictions women live with right fucking now. Women aren’t enjoying this because they hate men, they’re enjoying it because they recognize the things being inverted here. Does it make you uncomfortable? Good. It’s supposed to give you some idea what it feels like to be a woman. If it makes you angry, then maybe you have the first inkling why feminists are pissed off.

            Lucky for you, your restrictions are limited to an absurdist parody on the internet. I still have to live with mine in the real world. But go ahead and keep raging against this great injustice.

          • This is a great piece of satire highlighting how warped society’s response to sexual violence against women often is.

            Most men are not rapists (the statistics quoted in the piece say 6% of men will commit a rape in their lifetimes), but that’s the point of the article – highlighting the absurdity of restricting the freedom of a huge group of people just because a few individuals can’t control themselves.

            But you’ve confused your statistics on the “1 in 3″ claim – the statistic is that 1 in 3 Canadian women will be raped in their lifetimes, not in 2010. So the number of rapes committed in 2010 is completely irrelevant.

          • Do you really think that every woman who has been sexually assaulted would tell you about it. I am a rape victim and almost no one knows about it. I was molested as a child as well, but it’s not something I advertise. Both of my sisters were raped (all of these are separate incidences) and two of my friends. It happens a lot more than you think and most women aren’t comfortable talking about it.

          • “Don’t punish the victim, I agree, but don’t punish the innocent either.”

            Are you saying the victim isn’t innocent?

            The whole reason for the article was for you to feel what it is like for women ALL THE TIME. We, as victims are punished constantly. Nobody gives a shit how innocent we are, either. We are forced to give up our freedoms in an attempt to stay safe. All you did was read about it and you got pissed. Imagine what it is like to have to live your life like that.

          • “A rapist can’t rape you when you’re around other people…”

            Really? Tell that to the 16-year-old girl in Steubenville, OH, who was raped recently at a party surrounded by witnesses. Or, from years ago, the woman who was raped on a pool table in a bar while other male patrons cheered the rapist on.

          • Not one of your female friends has been assaulted or rape eh?

            And how exactly do you know that?

            Outside of feminist circles, about 4 people in my real life know that I was raped. We tend not to tell people, especially men, especially men who come across as though they might not believe us or tell us how we should feel about it.

          • Just wanted to say that your “of the people I know” example is ridiculous. If you think every female you talk to on a regular basis would tell you if she had been sexually assaulted, you are delusional. Wikipedia is a good thing, but is not necessarily fact checked or up to date, and is thus not a valid source. Even if those are legitimate police statistics, TONS of sexual assault isn’t reported, particularly if the victim is a child. Just be careful. Remember that you never know the entire story unless it’s yours.

        • Define ‘take precautions?’ Because I’m seeing a lot of people in these comments making the assumption of ‘until I know you’re not going to rape me, I’m assuming you are…’

          I try not to let what others think of me bother me too much, but if someone looks at me and thinks “ooh, he’s probably a rapist” I’m going to be hurt by that.

          • Welcome to the world of being female! Growing up female, pretty much all the male gender is stronger than you and therefore has the potential to be a threat. While most of us might not go around consciusly thinking that every man we meet might be a rapist, there is still, quietly at the back of almost every female’s mind, the little voice of caution that says ‘he’s bigger than you, he could overpower you, treat with caution until you know him better….’

          • The sad truth is when they say most rapes are committed by people they know, we’re talking about people they really know, not just friends of friends or some guy they met at a party.
            For example, a family friend was raped and abused by her husband. Another family member was raped by her long term boyfriend of about 15 years. Finally a friend of mine recently had a close friend from school get really drunk & try to rape her (another friend luckily intervened).
            Give up on the “myth” that women can just carefully vet their friends. Sadly, there is no way to know who is going to suddenly turn on you.
            Given that, appreciate the fact that women are still prepared to be friends with you given that enormous risk they are taking.

          • In my experience treating men like they are a threat IS the best way to take precautions. You are very upset that women might be wary of you, but you seem to be unwilling to understand how much more upsetting it is to have to take these precautions. And to know that if we don’t, if heaven forbid we let our guard down around the wrong man, most people will blame us. If we make the mistake of trying to get help, or try to bring justice to the man who rapes us, we’ll be more on trial than he is.

          • N, you make a very good point. A lot of people are saying “I don’t blame the victim, but everyone should take precautions”. Sure, I don’t mind not walking down dark alleys, to reduce my risk of being attacked (in any way) by a stranger (which, incidentally, accounts for a minority of rapes).

            But where do we stop? Do we stop going to our friend’s and relative’s houses? That would prevent 20% of rapes. Do we not open our house/apartment door to anyone, even if we know them? That would prevent a further 40%.

            At what point do I stop taking precautions to avoid offending my male friends? Not to mention live a normal life.

          • Well, I was raped by a close friend who I never would have suspected beforehand so I don’t know who to trust anymore. I don’t automatically assume that all men are rapists but I do take precautions because you never know who might do something terrible. I also take precautions such as locking my doors and not leaving my purse around at work, that doesn’t mean I think everyone is a burglar or a thief.

          • “I try not to let what others think of me bother me too much, but if someone looks at me and thinks “ooh, he’s probably a rapist” I’m going to be hurt by that”

            Oh, you poor poor thing. I’m sure that’s just awful for you. Why, having to actually deal with groping, assault, and the possibility of rape pales in comparison to the mental anguish you must feel in response to the fact that strangers may not trust you on sight.

            I don’t expect someone I don’t know to know what sort of person I am. Oddly, my feelings aren’t hurt if strangers don’t immediately assume they can trust me.

            A woman alone with a strange man in certain situations isn’t likely to be thinking “he’s probably a rapist,” but the possibility that he could be one may well cross her mind. Welcome to reality for half of the human species.

          • “A woman alone with a strange man in certain situations isn’t likely to be thinking “he’s probably a rapist,” but the possibility that he could be one may well cross her mind. Welcome to reality for half of the human species.’

            You/re very right Gogo.

            There is nothing on their person that tells us they AREN’T a rapist, so what do they expect from us? I don’t think all men are rapists, but that doesn’t mean subconsciously the thought doesn’t cross my mind in situations where I find myself alone with a strange male.

          • If you are not a rapist then you should be offended by the assumption that you are but don’t get upset with women for making that assumption. That is the behaviour that is expected of us and is what we are brought up to believe.

            This is what women are told every day of their lives from when they are little girls. When we are attacked we are told that we should have been more careful. When we are more careful we get told that we should be more trusting of “men like me” because “I’m not a rapist.”

            You don’t like a satirical piece advising men to severely limit their lifestyles to avoid raping someone because some men can’t control themselves?

            Well, boo hoo, don’t expect sympathy from women who, in real life, are expected to limit their lifestyles to some degree every day to stay safe.

            The only difference between telling a woman she shouldn’t have worn that short skirt and telling a woman she must cover completely in a burqua is degree. The message is the same. If only THAT were satire.

          • And sadly, even if we do everything possible to avoid rape, it still happens. And we’re still told it was our fault. And if it goes to trial, every aspect of the victims life is dragged out and shown in it’s worst light, while the rapist sits back in his new suit, with his new haircut, and relaxes, because his past is not allowed to be brought up. And he’s probably going to be found innocent so he can go out and rape someone else.

            And you want to know why we’re so paranoid about it? Because no matter what we do our lives are trashed. And the rapist gets off as innocent or with a slap on the hand, and goes back out in the world to repeat the crime.

          • Indeed, we’re seeing two opposing views here: on the one hand, “it’s not the victim’s fault, but one should always take precautions,” and on the other, “it’s offensive to assume every man is a potential rapist.”

            See the difficulty here?

          • TOUGH SHIT. You don’t like it that women pre-suppose you are a rapist? WELL TOUGH SHIT BRO. We live in a time of unprecedented evil against women perpetrated by men and their dark sexual violence. If you don’t like to be put into that category, then it’s you job to destroy the category, no ours. We didn’t create it-you and your kind did. So if you want out of this mess, go start teaching men to stop raping and giving you all a bad name. Until then, you all are on notice. Don’t like it? Feel “judged”? Get your feelings hurt? Well tough shit, at least you weren’t raped in an alley with a bottle.

          • Yeah, I don’t give a f about your feelings, mate. I’ll assume what I want about you if that’s what takes to keep me safe. Your feelings are not more important than my safety. Honestly, piss off. (Are you a mind-reader, by the way? Since you look at people and know what they’re thinking.)

      • you are totally a rapist! don’t even bullshit us like that. and all you’re doing here is make rape apologies and trying to minimize the significance of the issue. and gaslighting anybody who calls you on it.

        get over your stupid MRA self and stop raping people! and stop making excuses for all your rapist buddies. fuck i hate people like you.

    • “… since all college football coaching staff were replaced by women after last year’s Penn State abuse scandal.”

      Um, no.

      “studies show that women commit 14% to 40% of offenses reported against boys and 6% of offenses reported against girls.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

      So the idea that sexual abuse is only committed by men is a facile fantasy.

      • I would remind you, Dr. O’connell, that while the information you provided states that 14-40% of sexual assaults against male children and 6% against female children, were committed by females, the number of female perpetrators still remains DRASTICALLY lower given the fact that (in canada at least) 82% of victims are females.
        Lets look at this more realistically so that we are not throwing out misleading numbers, shall we?

        of every 100 child victims of sexual assault, 82 those are girls, and and 18 are boys.
        of those 82 girls, 5 (6%) of them report the assault occurred at the hands of a woman, and 77 of them report that the perpetrator was a man.
        of the 18 boys, at the very most 7(40%) of them were assaulted by a female, and at the least that makes 2.5 (14%)… for the sake of this we will avg. those stats and go use something in the middle which would be just under 5 (27%).
        So… just to recap. For every 100 sexual assaults committed against children 10 of those assaults were committed by women and 90 of them committed by men.
        So just to clarify. That is 10% vs 90%.
        I hope I made this clear enough for everyone to understand. When people throw facts around like DR. O’CONNELL did, it can be VERY MISLEADING!!! and one of the biggest problems with doctors throwing numbers like that around is that people tend to believe them without question because doctors are believed by many to be unbiased, and to thoroughly research, and present understandable and reliable facts.

        • Thank you, Justme for breaking down those figures for us. But I wonder how many people think they are false or made up?

          People believe what they want to believe. Only something that really jolts them may change their minds. Look how many men are all bent out of shape over this simple blog. I can only hope that some of the see the “light”, even if we don’t hear from them.

    • I felt obliged to post this as a guy here claimed that only 1 in 50 of his female friends had been sexually assulted. There is no way this is true. I reckon almost every woman has been assulted. Most people just don’t say. Most of of friends or family know about none of the below! I have had several close calls including although, touch wood, have never actually been raped.
      1) A man climbed through my window at 3am in Korea and put his hand in my friend’s pants while she was sleeping (I woke up and got help) Usually I slept there alone.
      2) Again in Korea, I went out with my landlord in the car and suggested stopping for dinner, as it was dinner time I agreed, he got drunk, stopped the car outside a love hotel and started groping me insisting I go inside with him for half an hour.
      3) In Korea again, a man helped me carry 40 kilos of suitcases to me hotel room, when inside grabbed me.
      4) In Japan I gave my mobile phone e-mail to a guy on a train who asked me on a date by e-mail, I ignored his mail and he started to sent me sexually obsene mails for several weeks.
      5) In London I was invited to a hotel room party as I had to wait till the first train. One of the guys held me against the wall, and wouldn’t let me go and I was rescued by his friend.
      6) A friend of mine who being bothered by a persistant guy in Aldershot and when I told him to leave her alone, hit me, I said I was going to call the police and he floored me and I ended up in hospital.
      7) I was offered money for sex 3 times, once after a long conversation and after refusing an offer of coffee in Tokyo, once coming out of a convenience store at 3pm by a man in his 70s in Japan and once when using the first tube in London.
      8) I was groped on the train in france by a very very old man sitting next to me.
      9) I was groped on the train in Tokyo several times. These guys are clever, use no hands and push their body against you so it is difficult to prove. Oh in France too.
      I wonder if I missed any out, actually I have! And you would be surprised at how many people said these incidents were my fault for not taking enough care etc and the 2 incidents I reported to the police I feel were never properly followed up. Although it is important to take steps to keep safe and I try to, I am NOT responsible for someone else’s lack of human decency and manners. And my sympathy goes out to those girls who have had worse experiences than me.

      • I was almost raped, and when I was younger I was groped numerous times. It’s not something I just tell people. The majority of my friends have no idea.

        To assume that 50 female friends have never had an unwanted sexual encounter because they haven’t told you is either being naive or subjectively blind.

        To come out here and use it as fact without questioning each and every one of those women first, is irresponsible.

    • Men get raped in prison all the time, they dont go around pretending their lives are ruined.. in a couple days, your asshole will be the same again.

      Women want to be treated equally, how about they start acting like they are.

      • “Men get raped in prison all the time, they dont go around pretending their lives are ruined.. in a couple days, your asshole will be the same again.”

        What the fuck? Seriously, could be the words of a rapist right there, how fucking little you seem to care about rape victims. It’s total sexist bullshit that men don’t suffer from being raped. Sexist because it paints men as being tough and women as weak. First of all, most WOMEN don’t talk about their experiences of being raped, let alone men (who are by far a minority of rape victims). With attitudes like yours, why would a man broadcast the fact that he’s been raped? Especially a man who’s in prison and thinks or pretends he’s tough shit? Furthermore, even if men were a little less likely than women to feel traumatized by rape, maybe that’d be explained by the fact that when men get OUT of prison, their chances of being raped aren’t necessarily as high as women’s? Heck, for all you know, those male rape victims go and take it out on women by raping them in place of allowing themselves to feel traumatized…. just look at the case of Brandon Teena – female-to-male transgender person raped by two ex-convicts who had been the prison weaklings… they wanted a way to feel like they were powerful, so they used rape and murder.

        Your comment is disgusting and I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if you are a rapist.

      • Rape is awful regardless of who it happens to. I worked at a rape crisis center for a few years and in that time I spoke to numerous male rape victims and their pain was no different than a woman’s. No one was a right to force themselves on another person or otherwise assault them. You make me sick.

      • “Men get raped in prison all the time, they dont go around pretending their lives are ruined.. in a couple days, your asshole will be the same again.”

        Hmm…I can think of possibilities for why this coiled steamer of a comment exists. One is that you really are as twisted, cold and arrogant as you seem to be, and you find some sort of sick humor in rape.

        Another possibility is that you ARE one of those unfortunate convicts, you still vividly remember the agony of having your asshole torn to shreds by forced entry, and you want everyone else to suffer the same pain and humiliation that you did.

        In either case, you have my pity.

      • Maybe they should have thought of that before committing their crime? We all know prison is like some kind of brothel for many inmates. We know that the weaker, or prettier, or nerdier prisoners end up being raped.

        So if they want to avoid having this happen, they shouldn’t do the crime.

        Pretty much like with women, there are supposed ways to avoid rape for both sexes. Don’t commit a crime and get caught. Get caught, go to prison, get raped. Well, dude, we told you how to avoid it, you didn’t, so it’s all your fault

    • This article is ridiculous. Not all men sexually assault women, nor do they have a desire to. It sounds like the author wants all men to be enslaved. So I conclude the author is a KKK member.

      • Craig, no one here says all men are rapists. You seriously don’t get it.

        All women are potential victims of rape. And we have spent our lives trying to find ways for us to be safe. Many of us don’t go out at night, or don’t go out alone. We have to watch everything we wear and everything we say, and god help us if we have too much to drink. Because if we slip up and get raped, they will say we were asking for it, we’re whores, we are just going after the guy because he wouldn’t do something we wanted and that’s why we called him a rapist.

        This article is suggesting that we put that burden on men for a change. Men are all potential rapists, even though all you guys on here are screaming foul because we suggested that. But since we have been forced to not fully live our lives, this would be a fair alternative.

        You all think this would be horrible, but it is how we have been forced to live for decades. We don’t like it either.

        Remember this when you hear your buddies talking about what they could do to some girl. Remember this when you all want to chastise, harass or hurt any woman who reports a rape. Remember how you felt when you first read the article.

        Reach out and help who you can. Stop those wanting to do harm, and if you can’t and they go ahead and commit rape, go to the authorities and report what you know!

        Remember how you felt.

        • Yeah and everyone person is a potential murder, robbery, or random death victim. We have to live with that every day of our lives.

          • @bsfinder:
            So let’s pre-emptively incarcerate every single person before the few who would commit such crimes can do so… Ridiculous, right? Well that’s the point of this post: it would be ridiculous to limit the freedom of all men just because ~5% of them commit most rapes.

            As for curtailing the freedoms of the potential victims, that happens now. Do you know what it’s like to worry about *not being taken seriously* if you happen to be assaulted? When was the last time you were advised on what to do (or not do) to make sure your testimony would be considered credible if you were robbed or bashed?

            The problem (as I see it) is not that we should all take precautions to protect ourselves from harm; the problem is that if someone falls victim to rape after failing to take any single precaution, some people actually suggest that the rape was invited.

          • Bullshitfinder, you sound like you have anger issues

            “Yeah and everyone person is a potential murder, robbery, or random death victim. We have to live with that every day of our lives.’

            Yes, we all do, both men and women alike. And if we step off the curb into the path of a taxi or bus it was an accident and we aren’t dragged through every dirty thing in our past.

            And if you get robbed you don’t get treated like it was your fault. You and your family aren’t constantly harassed because you went to the police about it. What you were wearing isn’t a factor in it, you past sexual history isn’t brought up, you’re not treated like you brought this on yourself. That is what that blog and these posts are about.

          • Except that almost ALL VIOLENCE IN AMERICA is perpetrated my men. So while YOU feel this is all normal and just ‘part of life’, WOMEN experience this life as being under constant attack by men. So wake the hell up and put your big boy pants on and stop getting your dumb little feelings hurt.

        • So in other words accountability is just gross for women because “vagina.”

          Get off your entittlement and start living in the real world where crime exist no matter what.

          • Ric
            “So in other words accountability is just gross for women because “vagina.”

            Get off your entittlement and start living in the real world where crime exist no matter what.”

            First off, your statement about accountability being gross makes no sense what so ever. Just what were you trying to say?

            Secondly, I’ve been out in the real world my whole life. At no time did I EVER say I was “on” an entitlement, so I don’t have one to get off of. I know crime exists, I also know that in most instances victims are victims and criminals are criminals. Unless we’re talking about rape, when people are still blaming the victim and the criminal walks off to rape again.

            That is what this is about. I’m sorry you apparently don’t get it, and that like many you strike out with insults to those of us trying to explain what you refuse to listen to.

            I’d suggest, after reading your two posts, that you take your ego and sarcasm and go troll another story. We’ve been explaining this one since January and I’m not explaining it again just because you’re too lazy to read through all the posts.

        • Hahah what? Do you know how many people go “Well why were they walking in such a dangerous neighborhood at night? Why weren’t their windows locked?”

    • I love feminist and female logic…because crime exist in this world and because cautionary advice is offered, its akin to a complete suppression of rights and liberties. Funny thing too is that in a 1 year survey conducted by the CDC on rape victims, they found just as many women rapist as they did men….but heaven forbid we tell a woman that walking down a dark alley butt naked and stone outta her mind might be a bad idea cause ya know” victim blaming.”

      Don’t tell your kids to look both ways before crossing, tell drivers not to drive!

      • I will ask you the same thing I asked another post who never responded:

        How is it the CDC has the figures that the Law Enforcement apparently doesn’t? If the crimes are not reported, just how is the CDC getting their information?

        I think you need to provide some links to some reliable sources to back those astounding figures up. Until then, I’m afraid I happen to be very skeptical and I’m sure many others here will agree with me.

      • Whenever I hear a guy start out using the words feminist and female in their posts I know that the mind is closed and sarcasm will follow. Thanks for not letting me down.

        There is a difference between cautionary advice and a complete suppression of rights and liberties. We appreciate cautionary advice if it’s something we haven’t thought of. We don’t like the complete suppression of rights and liberties we have had to undergo to protect ourselves.

        Not being a “feminist or female”, but certainly close minded, you probably are not aware of what your mother or sisters or aunts or daughters have to do on a daily basis to keep from being a victim of rape. You have no idea how over the decades and centuries, women have taught each other about the cruelness that society bestows on rape victims. If our history is not squeaky clean, we’re suddenly tramps, we led them on, we got what we deserved.

        We don’t even HAVE to go “walking down a dark alley butt naked and stone outta her mind” to be assaulted. And even though YOU don’t seem to believe in victim blaming, it’s out there in full force.

        You said in your other post to get out and live life. Guess what, we do. Know why? Because 40% of rapes occur in our own homes and that’s one way to avoid that.

        • Hey. I think feminists can be closed minded. Guess I’m closed minded, too, huh? I’ve read the majority of the comments above. I get that women are angry over how many rapes have occurred and by what gender. I’m a guy and somehow by saying that, I know one of you out there is going to think I support rape (which I DONT) or that I am a rapist (which I am NOT) I agree with the others of “my kind” on this comment list, but I disagree with them too. I understand why you all take precautions. It’s fair. And men aren’t the only predators. And PLEASE stop saying all men are potential rapists… Because men can be very different and we aren’t nearly as alike and inconsiderate as you think. My friend was almost raped. And the guy that attacked her got a slap on the wrist. I don’t want to start a fight, I don’t have anger issues, I’m not closed minded. And I get it if any of you immediately think I’m rapist, but whether you want to believe it or not, I’m not. And by the way, I hate rapists and find them disgusting, male or female. I want to beat that guy who grabbed my friend. I just find this argument itself a bit closed minded for both sides. Let’s say there are two towns. Someone from one town robs the other and is caught. Would it make sense if the other town said, “hey, this guy from the other town tried to steal. Everyone else from there is almost certainly a thief too. Let’s take them in too” I get that in reality, it must be a terrible and scarring experience. I’m not saying you should suck it up and move on. I just think it’s ridiculous to make “my kind” in all suffer the way yours claims to have always been. Imagine there was a man who wanted to be abstinent and didn’t even look at a girl and think “hey I think she’s hot. I should do stuff to her.” Then one day, this man was told by law that he needed to be blindfolded purely because he’s likely to rape a girl for being born a boy. Does this make sense to you? Even considering the fact this man thinks of women as complete equals? I’m not saying all men are like this either, though. So to recap. It’s good to take care, but don’t attack everyone on a witch hunt by blindfolding them, I’m not a rapist, I am not defending them, I am NOT sexist I just want women to understand my point of view on the matter, I NEVER blame the victim. The court doesn’t look into the accused person enough for it to be fair to the victim. I don’t want to start a fight, so PLEASE don’t spew hate at me. I understand if you disagree with something I said.

          • ExplainingMyView, first, that story was a satire. We have no intention of blindfolding all men. However, you have now had a slight idea of what it is like for us. And that is not a claim. I’m 62 and have lived my life taking those precautions because men can’t control themselves. I have to watch what I wear because if I dress for fun it may be taken wrong, how I walk because god forbid my hips may swing too much, how I carry my purse, who I am with, where I go, and how much I drink. I don’t know too many guys that have to deal with all of that just to have a drink with a friend. But women have been doing that for centuries.

            You don’t like that women feel all men are potential rapists? I’m sorry, but just exactly how do we tell which man is and which man isn’t? Until we are raped we don’t know, so we have to speculate that all men are. We know that most men aren’t, but again, how do you tell one from the other. Can you tell which man is and isn’t a rapist just looking at him?? Honestly? Of course not. So how do we?

            Until there is some kind of foolproof way to tell one man who rapes from one who doesn’t, we have to live our life cautiously and that means each and every man we are around has to be considered a possible rapist. Be offended all you want, but until you walk a mile in our high heels, you will not understand just what we go through daily. And that is just to walk out the front door of our homes everyday.

            Next time you’re walking past a construction site take a minute to hear the cat calls and harassment women have to deal with. That’s just a tiny example of what we deal with daily. Watch the men at work, at parties, in bars, listen to the way they talk about us and our anatomy, and how they would stuff us, jump us, give it to us rough, or brag about their conquests. It’s degrading and it certainly makes us feel the need to be cautious. We don’t like seeing men undressing us with their eyes either, but it happens all the time. Are we supposed to think that is OK? No, not going to happen.

            You’re offended by the story and by us feeling all men are potential rapists. I’m offended because it is you men that have made us feel that way.

          • And even with all of my clarification, I’m not shocked, but someone took what I said all wrong. I get why women take that precaution, and you have every right to think what you want to feel more secure. You’re right! I haven’t walked a mile in a woman’s shoes, so I don’t have a firsthand view… But honestly… Did you read what I said at all? I’m not crying out for women to forget it like its nothing. I’m not saying I don’t care. I’m not saying it’s not an issue… But Lo and behold!! Somebody took what I said completely the wrong way.

          • Explainingmyview, I read what you said. Several times. You’re original post was all over the place. You don’t feel we should consider all men a potential rapists, especially you. You go to great lengths to make sure we know you are on our side. But you still have not answered my questions. Instead you claim I don’t understand what you said, when it was clear I did. You apparently did not read my post completely before answering, or did not comprehend it.

            Your example with the two towns is taking things to extremes, we are not suggesting all men be locked up. We are simply suggesting you live your life as we do, if only for a short time.

            I suspect you already had decided we would not understand your post when you wrote it, and that no matter who answered or what we said, you would claim we don’t understand. I also think you are going overboard on how pro woman you are, how anti rape you are. It’s like you’re begging us to see what a wonderful guy you are. And yet you write:

            “I just think it’s ridiculous to make “my kind” in all suffer the way yours claims to have always been.”

            Wow. That pretty much negates all you said. Now it’s “your kind”, and according to you it’s now what we claim, as if we were lying when we stated our experiences. Guess what, we did suffer for centuries because of men thinking we were second class citizens, or just a piece of property there for man’s entertainment. This is not a claim. It is a fact.

            “Did you read what I said at all? I’m not crying out for women to forget it like its nothing. I’m not saying I don’t care. I’m not saying it’s not an issue… ”

            I don’t see anything in my post that negates what you said, so why did you ask if I read it? Was it because I didn’t fall all over myself telling you what a great guy you are to be on our side? Your posts are both full of how great you are. No need for me to respond to something I cannot confirm or deny.

            So yeah, I read your post. You apparently did not understand my replay, or do and don’t want to answer it.

            So go ahead now, and once again claim I don’t understand. It apparently is your mindset that we women aren’t smart enough to understand your ramblings. And you actually seemed delighted when you thought I didn’t understand your post. Makes me wonder why you felt the need in both posts to argue what a great guy you are because you are so anti rape

  1. As almost always, I’m mildly miffed that rape is painted as a crime always committed by men and only perpetrated against women, but this is still really damn clever.

    • I understand your frustration with that construction of rape generally, but this post is about stereotypical responses, so…

    • The vast, vast majority (upwards of 97%) of male victims of rape/sexual abuse were assaulted by men, when the victims were children. The majority of remaining male victims were assaulted as children by adult women, or as adults by adult men.

      Before you say “Men just don’t report”, male victims are actually more likely to report .

      Each and every victim deserves support, compassion, and justice. It is simply extremely, incredibly rare for an adult woman to sexually assault an adult man.

      • You’re going to have to source those claims, because they are completely wrong.

        You claim (at first) that NO adult women rape adult men, which doesn’t make sense at all. Even under current feminist laws, which make rape of a man by a woman in almost all cases “not rape”, there are still a few cases. Later you claim that it is only extremely rare, but I can’t help but wonder what would make you think that.

        You also claim that men are more likely to report, but I’m not sure how you think so, because women who have been raped get support from most places in their lives, while men are laughed at, called faggots, and are told they are actually lucky they were raped.

        • “Feminist laws“? That’s an odd expression, especially since laws are constituted everywhere in the world by legislatives that are firmly dominated by men.

        • @dfedhli “Feminist Laws” – You mean certain laws on the books, made by men, that concluded men can’t be raped?
          Laws that reflected the stereotype that real men can’t be raped by “gasp” a women?

          Would “Feminist Laws” also consist of those that said a women was not raped if she was married to said rapist?

          You’re of use of the term, “Feminist Laws”, makes me consider the fact that you may be Rush “little blue pill” listener, although he usually uses the term Feminazi.

        • dfedhili.
          Is that your name or is there a bit of unnecessary paranoia there?
          I have to agree that men are not likely to report as it is not a high incident crime.
          Rape and sexual abuse of women, is. Every corner of this planet treats the victim in a disgusting and shameful way. In a lot of countries they are treated shamefully anyway and personally, I’d like to get the majority of the male populations of those countries and give them a bit of nip and tuck.
          A man beats his wife to the point of hospitalisation. She goes to the local copper to report it and is told that because her husband is a drinking buddy, he wouldn’t do it. This happened!
          Men are responsible for their reactions in relation to the total environment around them and unfortunately, the record is clear that we truly deserve no quarter when it comes to the law and believe me when I say that it truly grieves me to say that.
          Perhaps a fitting punishment for rape would be to live life as a woman for the time it takes for the victim to recover. Or maybe, just a complete castration would be deterrent enough.

        • We are not given support for rape when it happens. When it happens we are told that it was our fault and that it wasn’t rape. We are negated for having any feelings or tragedy after this. We are just supposed to get over it when we have traumatic stress syndrome for years later. The percentages are off. More men rape. It is extremely under reported. A large percentage of women have been raped and many several times in their lifetime, too many to mention. A lot of men don’t even understand that rape happens when I woman says no and he continues against her will. I am appalled that you think women get support. They get support maybe twenty years later. But what about when it happens? no. And they had better shut up about it most of the time or else they could be endangering their life.

          • With all respect Kat that’s an unfair statement. There is tons of support for rape victims, both from the community and social institutions (depending on where you live). I did not receive any, nor did a friend of mine; but I’ve known at least 10 other people who were raped and they received an outpouring of support from everyone. Obviously there are going to be the loud few who scream and point fingers at the victim, but to be completely blind to the fact that many victims do get support, and that not everyone is a cold-hearted unempathetic bugger, is unfortunate on your end.

          • Amen to that, Kat.

            Alex, the only support I’ve seen is online. There are no survivor services for men in my area. The psychologist I have to speak to through the university needs convincing I was actually raped. My witnesses blamed me and one of them denied it was rape because I didn’t fight back hard enough for her satisfaction. I’m “supposed” to be totally over it by now because it was, like, 3 1/2 years ago. Outside of our own survivors & feminist spaces, society treats us very badly. As well as the comment sections within those “safe” spaces.

          • whether or not a woman gets support is largely cultural. if you’re in San Francisco, there is as much support as you need and are willing to look for. if you’re in some of the other counties in CA, you might not find so much.

            cultural differences account for a huge difference in how we respond to all forms of crisis and trauma. in China, for instance, where women are very much seen as inferior, and have been for a very long time, a woman being raped is a cause for her and her family’s shame. the same is true in regards to most religions, since the religions on this planet are mostly rooted in patriarchal beliefs.

            in the more secular areas of the US, however, there is tons of support and rape counseling, and groups, and people to talk to. if you’re living in one of the areas where that culture is not present, not only are you less likely to receive the care you need, but you’re probably also more likely to get rape, since a culture which does not value women is part of the fundamental problem.

            of course, the real problem (as evidenced by the huge percentage of rape that happens to men in prison) is that we no longer really value, in a measurable social way, humans at all. we value money. we value fame. we value power, and pleasure. until we’ve each reconnected to humanity and are able to empathize with others, this will continue.

        • women get support when they report rapes? Only if they are “real women” and the men who rape them are “real rapists” and the women are saints…

          Good luck with that, on the contrary we get asked if we didn’t actually want it, if we were too drunk and maybe meant yes, if we were wearing too little and if we had had too much sex before. Not to mention when we knew our rapist, can’t be rape if you know him ya know?

        • This comments section needs some statistics ’cause some of y’all seem to be pulling rape trends out of your asses. Let’s start with the encyclopedia:

          “The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) stated that that 91% of United States people whose rape accusations resulted in convictions against the accused were female and 9% were male. It also stated that 99% of the people convicted of and imprisoned in response to rape accusations were male, with only 1% of those convicted being female.[1]…….In 2011 the US Centers for Disease Control found that “nearly 20% of all women” suffered rape or attempted rape sometime in their life. More than a third of the victims were raped before the age of 18……..Male on male rape has historically been shrouded in secrecy due to the stigma men associate with being raped by other men. According to psychologist Dr. Sarah Crome, fewer than one in ten male-male rapes are reported. As a group, male rape victims reported a lack of services and support, and legal systems are often ill-equipped to deal with this type of crime.[19] The rape of men by men has been documented as a weapon of terror in warfare.”

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender

          “The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials…. An overwhelming majority of rape service agencies believe that public education about rape, and expanded counseling and advocacy services for rape victims, would be effective in increasing the willingness of victims to report rapes to the police…. In 47% of rapes, the victim sustained injuries other than rape injuries. 75% of female rape victims require medical care after the attack. ”
          http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

          “Almost half of all multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations had no age-of-offender distinction (44.8%), another 24% were committed by 12-20 year olds, and 15.2% by 21-29 year olds. Only 5.9% of those committed were by offenders 30 years of age and older. The age of 10.2% of victimizations by multiple-offenders was not known…….Overwhelmingly, rape/sexual assault victims were most likely to be raped/sexually assaulted at home (33.7%) or at or near a friend/relative/neighbor’s home (21.3%), than any other location reported. …………Men were slightly more likely to report rape/sexual assault than women (38.9% vs. 31.2% respectively). However, women were significantly more likely to report rape/sexual assault involving a stranger than men (34.1% vs. 0% respectively), and men were significantly more likely to report rape/sexual assault involving nonstrangers than women (49.5% vs. 29.5% respectively). ”
          http://www.nmcsap.org/statistics.html

      • Out of which ass did you pull those numbers?
        What you say is utterly and completely incorrect and you should not be allowed to ever speak on the subject again for spreading false information.

        – most male rapes happen in prison
        – men are FAR less likely to report, so where in the universe you got that info of more likely to report is a total mystery and a lie
        – it is less rare for a woman to sexually assault a male man than you are lead to believe. This happens and it happens more than the statistics show (it also happened to me personally)

      • actually, the vast majority of men raped are raped in prison. indeed, men raped in prison accounts for the greater portion of ALL rape in the US. the difference is that we generally like to ignore people in prison, or decide that they deserve it…though, if you think about it, it’s probably not the big, violent dude getting raped. it’s probably the activists and the potheads, more often than not.

        • Maybe they should have thought of that before committing their crime? We all know prison is like some kind of brothel for many inmates. We know that the weaker, or prettier, or nerdier prisoners end up being raped.

          So if they want to avoid having this happen, they shouldn’t do the crime.

          Pretty much like with women, there are supposed ways to avoid rape for both sexes. Don’t commit a crime and get caught. Get caught, go to prison, get raped. Well, dude, we told you how to avoid it, you didn’t, so it’s all your fault

    • Hey Ben, it ain’t about you.

      Real men can appreciate the satire and, at the same time, the real RAPE issues facing women.

      Get over yourself.

    • Oh yes! We can’t talk about rape against women because FIRST we must always coddle our menfolk. Please, sweetie, tell me how YOU feel. This must be so unfair to YOU. I don’t matter until we’ve addressed YOU.

      • ^This.

        Thanks for taking the time to graciously admit there was some cutting wit and good points here, around your assertions of how you’re marginalized as a man. Let me cuddle you and reassure you that you’re still the one in power.

        Let’s be clear: This article and the accompanying humor isn’t about who rapes who. It’s about a pervasive cultural more that forces women to take responsibility for avoiding rape instead of placing the impetus of blame on a RAPIST.

        • okay, this is why the conversation never goes anywhere. blame never goes anywhere. blame is just a way of conveniently wrapping things so that we don’t have to look at the muddy details.

          men are not responsible for rape either. rapists are. of any gender. the women who get raped are obviously not to blame. the men who rape are not WHOLLY to blame. rapists are created. or, if you really believe that some people are just born rapists, then discount that comment…in which case the parents of rapists are to blame.

          can you see the absurdity of blaming people in an interconnected whole?

          its not about blame. its about vulnerability. who is vulnerable? how can society take steps, and how can they individually take steps, to reduce that vulnerability? have the city put up streetlights. stop getting shitfaced. there’s lots of ways to reduce vulnerabilities, and none of them can be implemented while we look for someone to blame. blame is too easy, and too fruitless for the conversation to keep circling around it. lets talk about what actions EACH PERSON can take to reduce rape, because rapists DO exist, regardless of whether they should or not, and regardless of who is to blame.

          • Who to blame? I think I’ll blame the person who shoves his penis inside someone who doesn’t want it there.

          • “Who to blame? I think I’ll blame the person who shoves his penis inside someone who doesn’t want it there.”

            Exactly. And that is usually a man. Rapist or not, he is still a man no matter how much you want to disassociate rapists from men. And yes there are women who rape also, but again they are first and foremost women. Sorry if that is not convenient for everyone.

            There is nothing convenient with the subject of rape. And right now there are no clear answers to a solution. Disassociating rapists from what they are still does not give us any thing. And it doesn’t end the debates. Sorry.

          • So to keep from being raped, women must give up any kind of socialization until the men in their city put up street lights and extra police patrols?

            That is what the whole mindset this article is showcasing. Women have to give up anything and everything to stay safe. So while we’re home knitting, you and your buds are out getting wasted, and that’s OK?

            Women have been told what to do for decades, maybe even centuries, and that we are the ones that have to give up those freedoms to stay safe. (although even when we do, we still get raped at home, and we’re still the ones who are accused of doing all kinds of behaviors to make the man rape us)

            That is so wrong. We should not have to give up those freedoms to dress as we like, and go out at night, or have a beer with friends at a bar. But that is pretty much what you said. And we’ve been hearing it for years.

            Men need to control themselves. If they can’t then maybe blindfolding them is the best. Maybe they should be the ones kept at home after dark. I mean if it’s what women should do, then men should too. After all, they have made it clear THEY get raped too. Shouldn’t they have to follow those guidelines? You know, for their safety.

      • Molly: That was beautiful! So “womanly” of you to be so concerned, for the offended boy, that you offered to assuage his hurt feelings. Some of us sluts just DON”T GET IT!

        We must always put the boys first, before us women folks. Thanks for leading the way!

        (Thank you for your awesome retort to the “offended”!) (Sarcasm back, in case that is missed )

          • Alex said : If you weren’t such sarcastic assholes people would probably take you more seriously.

            Really? Because I hear men in groups when they don’t think women aren’t listening or can’t hear them and we aren’t acting any differently here. I guess that’s one more thing that only men are allowed, because if we carry on like that we are sarcastic assholes.

            Damn, just what CAN we carry on about?

        • You can read a very lot into a very little.

          But, get together and make fun if it makes you feel better. I guess pointing out when an article is getting a bit black and white is all about entitled self-aggrandizement. The more you know.

      • Thank you! It seems like every time there is a discussion about women and the issues we face, it becomes a big “what about the men?” thing. “It happens to men, too!” or “Not all men are rapists!” Yeah, we KNOW it happens to men, too. Nobody is denying that but not every conversation has to be about the men. And we know that not all men are rapists. But for women, especially survivors of sexual assault, there is always that little voice in your head. The one that wonders if the man walking behind you in the parking garage might try something. If today is going to be the day that you get raped. How quickly can I get to my car? What can I use for a weapon? If I scream, will anyone hear me? When we treat every man as a POTENTIAL rapist, we get men going nuts about how “they” would never rape anyone and most men aren’t rapists. But if we get raped? Well, maybe we should have been more careful. Didn’t he seem a little suspicious? Shouldn’t have been out alone with some man at night. If we’re too careful, we’re just looking for danger around every corner and we hurt men’s poor feelings. If we’re not careful enough, then we should have been looking for danger around every corner.

    • No, guys, come on. It’s a good point. Sometimes – not very often, admittedly, particularly compared to the converse – women rape men, and this article is clearly incomplete without acknowledging it as the gross violation it is. As a non-raping woman, I am somewhat offended that you tacitly lump me into a group with female rapists but I will try to look past my indignation.

      Of course, if those raped men hadn’t put themselves into a situation where they might be raped – for example, wearing slutty clothes, being out by themselves, drinking too much, doing or saying anything that might lead a woman on or otherwise ‘asking for it’ – then perhaps they might not have been raped in the first place. Just something to think about, hmmmmm?

      • Do not go out on your own and get drunk. You will be vulnerable to the machinations of the big bad world, in all its immense cruelty. This is the best advice you have ever been given, please use it well.

        Is it any wonder rape is so prevalent, what with all the GOOD ADVICE FOR PREVENTING MISHAPS that you are so keen to reject?

        Maybe we should encourage a culture where you are warned of potential dangers, and advised as to how best to avoid them.

        • I don’t know what to roll my eyes at more: that you call rape a ‘mishap’ or that you miss the point of the article so badly that you actually try to reiterate victim-blaming ‘advice’ as though it in any way addresses the *real problem*.

          • Roll away. I think I may be operating on a plane beyond your comprehension.

            I understand the point of this article. I also understand all of the points of the poor people I’ve picked on this morning.

            Mishap is a euphemism. It’s also a generalisation. It was used here to indicate any of the range of bad things that could happen to you, female or otherwise, should you choose to ignore sensible advice which has nothing to do with blaming a victim.

            Be my guest. Go out alone and get drunk. I promise you are much more likely to find trouble than if you were in control of your faculties and with friends.

            What is the *real problem* that you’re so keen to address? Is it that men are rapists?

          • pointing out a vulnerability is not tantamount to blame. if you are trying to keep rats out of your house, and I notice that you’ve left an area of your pantry exposed, that does not mean that I’m blaming you for letting rats into your pantry. it means that rats exist, and will come into your house if you don’t seal the vulnerabilities. I’m telling you not to blame you, but because it is the ONLY thing I can do to help prevent you getting rats in your pantry. get it? it’s not about blame. advising women to avoid behaviors which make them vulnerable to rape is not blame. it’s sensible advice.

            that being said, I advise everyone to stop drinking. it screws up your liver, destroys your judgment, and generally has no benefit that can’t be achieved with a different, less poisonous substance. that being said, they’ve got great marketing, and they sell it everywhere…so by all means, continue destroying your body’s well-being for a bit of laughs.

        • What say you, fayre, to the 40%* of rapes that occur in the victim’s home, and the 20%* of rapes that occur in the house of a friend or relative?

          *Geez I hope these numbers are accurate, they’re to be found on al l the support websites.

          • I wondered about this, among the idea that ‘all unknown men are potential rapists’, and whether you know someone well enough to go back to their place. It turns out nobody is to be trusted – however well you know them (or in fact on account of how well you know them) they still might rape you.

            I don’t know how you solve this. It’s a problem of trust that appears in sexual relations like in all others. Vigilante castration of all attempted rapists, perhaps?

            Rape should stand out as one of those Things That Just Aren’t OK, like murder and slavery and morris dancing. Yet some people persist. Again, I don’t know how you stop the bad people; I’d welcome any good ideas!

        • You seem to know something I don’t. From my research on the topic there is little empirical proof that women who live independent lives are more at risk than those who don’t. In fact women who choose not to date/marry men seem to be a bit safer, suggesting that women who choose to remain independent – leading to more time alone – are actually safer, because male partners (ex, current or potential) and acquaintances are one of the key sources of violence against women.
          However, if I started advising women to be separitist lesbians, which would probably increase their safety, I would be a wacko feminazi. Whereas, your advice, which would not make them safer, is somehow sensible.
          Another point – people who like the ‘common-sense’ argument, always use the most extreme example – walking home drunk alone. I believe that person deserves to be safe. However, this example misses the basic point of the article. That women are blamed simply for being alone after dark. And realistically, in most women’s lives, if they are walking home after dark they are most often on their way home from work or school or other non-getting-wasted activities. My point being that following this little bit of ‘simple advice’ would have an enormous and real impact on women’s ability to function.
          The fact is, walking around alone at night is no more dangerous than walking around with a male friend. But women tend to be blamed for rape if they do anything that steps outside our notion of being “sensible” and the notions of being a “sensible” woman are more based on old-fashioned notions of women’s appropriate behaviour than empirical evidence about how to be safe.

          • Honestly I’d love to be able to go out into the parking lot of my apartment building to drop something into the dumpster past 4:30 or so in the winter months. Being a woman makes it difficult to do a lot of things alone at night and even during the day, but being afraid to go into my own parking lot is one of the most ridiculous ones.

          • Did I mention an interest in the relative safeties of woman who choose or choose not to have sexual relationships with men? Bit of a non sequitur there.

            “which would not make them safer”
            Please explain how being outside, sober, in numbers, is not safer than being outside, drunk and alone. Then accuse me of using whatever specific argument you imagine I am using.

            “I believe that person deserves to be safe.”
            It’s all very well believing that somebody deserves something. It does not make it so. I suggest that you deserve a lot less than you imagine.

            “The fact is, walking around alone at night is no more dangerous than walking around with a male friend.”
            Well going by rape stats quoted elsewhere on here, walking around with a male friend will probably result in rape. Then again, walking around alone at night is pretty fucking dangerous too. Seriously.

        • fayre: Is it any wonder rape is so prevalent, what with all the GOOD ADVICE FOR PREVENTING MISHAPS that you are so keen to reject?

          Funny, I’ve been reading these posts and NO ONE is rejecting ANY of it. We’re not happy it is so one sided, and that the burden of prevention falls on us in such a way that we have to give up freedoms men take for granted. But I have yet to read a post were anyone said they refused any advice given in this thread of posts.

    • It’s very true that men also get raped and we can’t be sure of the statistics since probably a lot of men don’t report it due to them being seen as sissy’s or people belittling it, saying they’re lucky they got some.

      However, this post is mostly a response to people saying that women should not dress skimpily and go out alone at night to avoid rape. This post merely comments on that and while men’s rape is also an important thing to discuss and spread awareness on, it is not part of this particular subject.

      • Yeah but then again … it never is part of any particular subject, is it?

        I was raped by women and the only people who listened, were men. Each and every single (and I am not joking here, every single one) woman who learned that I was raped only responded with laughter. Funny huh. Male rape is never a subject at all, anywhere. So please people, keep focussing on the fact that you “should” be able to wear whatever clothes you want. No matter the fact that we live in an imperfect world.

        • I am sorry you were raped. You need to find new women in your life. Most of the women in my social network would not laugh at you if you shared this information, but I can imagine plenty would… I grew up in a small, conservative, uneducated town in Texas, and I can just picture the majority of my classmates laughing over this. Most of my friends where I now live, however, would consider themselves feminists, and any “feminist” laughing at a man in this day and age for saying he was raped by a woman is a sexist.

          However, just because there are sexist women (there are a fucking lot of ‘em in Texas) doesn’t mean you can then write off female rape victims’ experiences and the fact that men are even bigger sexists and much more likely rapists… and men’s unwillingness to take responsibility for their own actions. Just as women might be less likely to sympathize with male rape victims (with female rapists) than men are, men are also less likely to sympathize with female rape victims (with male rapists) than are women…. for whatever fucked up reason, people enjoy being able to claim victimhood, regardless of whether or not they are. Thus, any time a member of a privileged social group (male, white, straight, wealthy, etc) hears their social privilege being called out and made visible, they are likely going to take it personally and defend the entire social group (regardless of what it has to do with them) by laughing it off or other resistance unless they are well-educated on the issue. This is how groups of people subconsciously maintain privilege over other groups, but less privileged groups can do similar things to more privileged groups…. it’s a herd mentality, a misplaced survival mechanism. And you’re giving into it here. And women being able to choose the clothes they wear has nothing to do with the fact that you were raped by a woman – I don’t blame you for being bitter, but taking it out on female rape victims is just your own participation in sexism. After all, some rape victims do go on to rape others, so being a rape victim doesn’t absolve you of our collective responsibility to end sexism.

          • “for whatever fucked up reason, people enjoy being able to claim victimhood, regardless of whether or not they are. Thus, any time a member of a privileged social group (male, white, straight, wealthy, etc) hears their social privilege being called out and made visible, they are likely going to take it personally and defend the entire social group (regardless of what it has to do with them)”

            I got off track here. I was going to say, also, any time a member of a privileged social group (male, white, straight, wealthy, etc) hears their social privilege being called out and made visible, they are likely –> to turn the convo around to claim victimhood for themselves, all the while accusing the less privileged group of being weaklings playing victim. It’s one of the most embarrassing results of the human mind, but it’s virtually a universal tendency. I won’t be the last to admit I’ve been there and done that, but unlike most people, I educate myself past this pathetic defense mechanism.

    • All this talk about women raping men, but what about those women who rate women, hmmm? As a female-bodied person who has been raped by a woman, I object to your heterosexist way of thinking!

      And yet, for some odd reason, I am STILL more wary of being raped by a man than another woman… I wonder why? /sarcasm

    • I understand your frustration. However, this article isn’t really about the crime of rape itself as it is about society’s general response to women because of the potential threat of rape. Are men told not to dress in a provocative manner when going out, because if they do they will be seen as looking for sex and thus invite rape? No, they aren’t. Are men told not go out alone or with small groups of their male friends, because it makes them a target for rape? No, they aren’t. Are men told they should fade into the background and not take a more prominent career path because drawing attention to themselves puts them in a position where they are more likely to be raped? No, they aren’t. These are things that happen to women regularly. These are the things that women are told by society (or at least by American society – I can’t speak of the world as a whole).

      So, yes, we can both agree that rape happens to men as well as women (though the numbers I’ve seen make women the more likely victims). But since the article isn’t about the crime but about the messages to women regarding rape, I don’t think it has a place in this article.

  2. Statistics are always off. they are biased by those doin the study and those answering. most sexual crimes committed by women are not reported. to say that a thought is a crime waiting to be committed would force us to blind all humans and remove the freedom of free thought.

    • I think you’ve missed the point of the entire article. P,ease hand in your reading privileges at the front desk.

      Yes, I did use the word privileges deliberately, but avoided explaining male privilege because, well, you just won’t get it.

      And yes, statistics are always “off”. The number of rapes across all demographics is greatly understated. We can tell how many are not reported to Police by numbers going to support groups. But the numbers that never even get that far, we can only guess.

      For the record, this male has no problem whatsoever with the comment “men rape” because we do. I am secure enough in my sense of self to know that I don’t. I know that, like anyone, it is within be to be that dark, that vile, but I choose not to be.

      If any man gets upset about articles like this, they really need to look at themselves and ask why. Why do you feel threatened by this? Is it some sense of guilt?

      And because this is all about you, I’ll end with an explanation. This whole thing is a sad, funny, intelligent cutting commentary on how women (and LGBTI folk who are also prominent in rape victim stats) are presumed to be victims before an attack. They are told to stay in numbers as if they are fecking gazelle. They are told to take responsibility for men’s behaviour. This post is saying “hey, here’s a novel idea, why don’t we make all men responsible for men’s behaviour.

      And I have no problem with that. Because I already consider myself responsible.

        • I am a heterosexual cisgendered female rape survivor. I was raped by a man.

          But I am bothered by the phrase “men rape”, as if it is a purely masculine crime. Men and boys who are raped by women are not treated as victims – they are treated as jokes or heroes, and that bothers me as a rape survivor and as a human being.

          The actions of one do not determine the actions of all, and treating all men as potential criminals is just as dehumanizing as treating all women as potential victims. It is contrary to all free humanist thought that we are somehow animals incapable of suppressing the worst instincts – the desires for power, control, to have someone else fear us. It is disgusting that some men use their genitalia as a weapon because they are incapable of suppressing this base instinct, but this does not mean women are in any way immune. I know that’s not what this article was about, and I’m fine with that, but the mockery in the comments towards any man who brings up female-on-male rape is just as disgusting as if someone was suggesting that male-on-female rape was a humorous thing, or an exaggerated problem, or a non-existent problem. It may not be as widespread a problem, but sexual violence is sexual violence, and it is wrong and traumatic no matter who is “on top” and what set of genitals they possess. Dismissing one as irrelevant weakens the entire argument, because then you are not arguing against sexual violence and rape, but only for women, however you take that.

          I also consider it a shame that I usually have to preface my thoughts on male sexual abuse with the fact that I have been raped, as if that makes what I have to say more relevant.

          • While I do agree that disparaging any notions of female-on-male rape is wrong, I still think GoodGravy is right. Saying “men rape” means that he is acknowledging that rape is a gendered issue. The statistics tell us this.

            I think it’s a problem that men who are raped by women are not taken seriously, or told they were “lucky”. It does reinforce the idea that men are always ready and willing for sex, and would never refuse a woman. But the issue here is that rape is not a purely masculine crime: it’s largely a masculine crime. Historically and statistically, male on female rape occurs more often. During every war that was ever fought, did many women rape men, or was it the other way around?

            I’m not sure why you think you have to talk about your rape experience to validate your opinions on male sexual abuse. It is certainly not necessary for me.

          • You are entirely correct. “Men rape” is as correct as saying “women kill”, just because some women do that.

            When I go into these discussions, as a man, I get shit thrown all over me. Nothing I say is being taken seriously by any woman. I have to “check my privilege” and “shut up” because I have “no idea”. I also seem to do a lot of “victim blaming” and I should be “ashamed”.

            That’s how far I get.

            STRANGELY … that all changes when I, like you, have to put in that I myself am a rape victim. I as a man was raped by 2 women. It’s only after I reveal that, that everything suddenly changes. Oh … “I didn’t mean it that way” and “you misinterpreted what I wanted to say”. So, according to them, as I do “victim blaming” … I blame myself!

            I can assure you, I do not blame myself for my rape. But I DO admit … I should have known better than to be in that place at that time, alone, at night, in a foreign country.

            As you say, it’s a shame that you have to reveal yourself as a rape victim before anyone takes anything you say seriously. And it’s a shame to state “men rape”.

      • You sir are a complete and ridiculous idiot.

        Everybody has the capacity to do anything. Rape, kill, torture, … it just depends on the circumstances. Push/threaten a person enough, and they will do whatever they need to stay alive.

        So men rape? All men have the capacity to rape. But so do all women. So … hey, let’s say “women rape”. Also, there are women in the world who killed. So … “women kill”. “Women are murderers”, “WOMEN ARE CHILD ABUSERS”, “WOMEN ABORT BABIES”, “WOMEN ABUSE ANIMALS”

        Whow, this is fun! All you have to do is take something that a woman once did and you can generalize it for the entire female population!

        You assume (again, assumptions) that some men feel threatened. YOU … use the word threatened. I am not threatened. I am INSULTED. RAPISTS rape. Men don’t rape.

        You make the comparison with gazelles. And by doing so, you are again assuming that “people”, “humans” are better. Wake the fuck up you ignorant ass. The world is a dangerous place. The simple fact is, you ARE safer in numbers. Is that sad? Yes.

        But I have yet to hear a rape victim say “Well I’m happy that at least I was wearing what I wanted and I was alone”. Give anyone the choice of getting raped, or walking in a group. And they will think you’re an idiot, of course nobody wants to get raped. But taking those precautions in order to decrease the chances of getting raped?? NOOOOOOO!!!! You can’t say that!!!! You’re blaming the victim!

        • You really don’t get it.

          ” I am INSULTED. RAPISTS rape. Men don’t rape.” Is that like guns don’t kill people, people kill people??

          We know rapists rape, and we also know the majority of rapists is men. Disassociating men from rapists seems to be a male thing. Guess this makes you all feel better about yourself.

          But the fact is that most rapists are MEN.

          As for the article, we’re not saying we don’t want to listen to ways to be safe, and we definitely plan to do what we can. But once again the standards are different for men than women. If a man goes out all dressed to the 9s, alone, at a bar, drinking, and he gets raped no one questions what he wore or did that night.

          If a woman goes out the same way and gets raped, she asked for it. Because man cannot control himself, she set him off. It’s all her fault this happened to her.

          Oh, don’t preach to me about what I should do to prevent rape. I’m 61 years old and have been taking precautions my whole life. But I still feel that I should have the right to go out and have a drink, dressed however I please, without having that be held against me if I get raped. I won’t ever do that, but I wish like hell I could.

          But apparently men don’t all feel that way. I guess men feel they have the right to go out dressed as they please to have a few drinks with the buds and not have it held against them if something happens on the way home.

          And that is what the satire is all about.

          BTW, your response to GoodGravey was a bit much, even for an emotional discussion such as this one. You might want to look into counseling about that. From your post it appears you have some major issues.

          • > But the fact is that most rapists are MEN.

            Most rapists are men != most men are rapists.

            These men raised the objection because your choice of words imply as such. Yes there are little whiny men out there who don’t like to feel like being accused of being rapists just due to them being men. And they’ll come puke all over your sites if you continue to choose these wordings.

            You might not feel like “men rape” has such connections in your mind, but nobody can read your mind, definitely not through a website.

            More men would rally to your cause if you all could just add the word “some” before the word “men”.

            You might object – why should I cater my words to other’s feelings? You are of course free to say whatever you want, and others are free to decide whether they should listen to you.

            Since as you know many in power are still men, don’t you want them to listen to you?

          • Matrim,

            Nowhere in my posts do I say ALL men are rapists. And the only thing I have is my choice of words.

            “You might object – why should I cater my words to other’s feelings? You are of course free to say whatever you want, and others are free to decide whether they should listen to you.”

            I DO object. Because now you’re saying we have to be careful with what we say. So we not only have to watch what we wear, where we go, and who we’re with, now you want us to cater our words so men will feel better about themselves.

            We’ve catered our entire lives to protect ourselves from men who rape and men who defend them, and it has not changed anything. For years we have been careful about what we say, trying to be politically correct, and to stroke man’s fragile ego. I’m sorry, I’m done with that. The time for pussy footing around the issue is over. We tried it your way, and it didn’t matter. Men will take offense at whatever we say, be it blunt or sugar coated.

            In case you haven’t noticed, there is a war going on. One against women. Laws are being passed that invade our very beings. Texas, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, all are making us into second class citizens with no say in our own healthcare. Before long they may even find a way to take the vote away from us. And don’t shrug that off, if non medically trained men can demand we have certain medical procedures, then they will keep working to do even worse to us.

            “Since as you know many in power are still men, don’t you want them to listen to you?”

            At this point I don’t think those in charge will change their tune. And no amount of sweet talk will change anything either. We can cater to them all we want, but they have an agenda and we are not going to change it,

          • The fact is the way you worded it suggested that men are always going to be the main offender instead of the main offender tends to be male.
            If you can’t understand how words can get you in trouble then you don’t need to be having this debate

          • Wow. That original response of mine has been out there since mid March and not a single person has said a thing about the wording. Then suddenly TWO of you choose to come out here and pick at me about my choice of words? Not about the satire, but how I worded things regarding men.

            “The fact is the way you worded it suggested that men are always going to be the main offender instead of the main offender tends to be male.
            If you can’t understand how words can get you in trouble then you don’t need to be having this debate”

            I am sorry but the one is the other. Although I do tend to see your choice as being extremely condescending.

            And then you have the gall to tell me I don’t deserve to be part of this debate. Who died and put you in charge of wording? If you take the time to read ALL the posts you will discover that mine is not worded any different that anyone else’s. And since this country still has the first amendment, I have as much right as you to be part of this debate.

            This is not “My Fair Lady” and you are not Professor Henry Higgins.

          • Castlebeck –

            > Nowhere in my posts do I say ALL men are rapists. And the only thing I have is my choice of words.

            I didn’t say you said that – I said, without qualifiers like “some”, it implies that.

            > I DO object. Because now you’re saying we have to be careful with what we say. So we not only have to watch what we wear, where we go, and who we’re with, now you want us to cater our words so men will feel better about themselves.

            It’s not because you are a woman that you have to do so *for men* – everybody has to do so if they want someone else to listen to them, especially the other group. I couldn’t very well win hearts calling everyone a****** or b****, right?

            Believe or not – there are men out there who want to help you, and more will do so if they won’t feel they always have to try to go through dissociation every time they heard “men rape”.

            > In case you haven’t noticed, there is a war going on. One against women. Laws are being passed that invade our very beings. Texas, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, all are making us into second class citizens with no say in our own healthcare.

            I sympathize with you. Wouldn’t you want more people rally to your cause then? (as you have seen from my other post that there ARE people working on these problems)

            > Wow. That original response of mine has been out there since mid March and not a single person has said a thing about the wording. Then suddenly TWO of you choose to come out here and pick at me about my choice of words? Not about the satire, but how I worded things regarding men.

            Your post is the one that I chose to respond on, not because you are the only one saying that – you are the last one I read saying the same thing just as I feel like I have something to say.

            Sorry it appears that I’m picking on you. Let me assure you that I am not.

            I saw a general trend of men and women talking over each other in this thread, with women not understanding why there are all these men whining about “men are suffering too”, blah, (and obviously many men didn’t get the satire – but that’s already pointed out many times and I have not much to add there).

            The satire is great goes without saying, but the communications between men and women here can be improved to help all.

        • Oh dear. I haven’t been back here for a while. Did I hurt your poor widdle fee-fees? Aww. Let me coddle you and make you all safe again.

          You’d have to be some spectacular kind of fool to argue against the fact that men are extraordinarily disproportionately represented in offender stats. Whether it is rape or sexual assault of women, of men, or “common assault”.

          As for feeling threatened, I suggest you read the comments. REALLY read them. You could even start with your own. Although self-examination appears to be something you don’t particularly engage in.

          Some men are indeed threatened by this. Because it might damage their fragile little ego. Your reaction demonstrates this perfectly.

          Let me ask you this: if you had the choice between a rapist taking control of themselves and (here’s a radical idea) not raping you, and having to only go out in groups, never drink, never wear anything you want to for fear it might turn someone on, which would you choose? An infringement of your freedom or an infringement of the offender’s?

          With the “gazelle” comment, you are making assumptions about my intentions. What I am saying is that “stay in crowds” is basically calling women prey, and men predators. Yes, I know this is true right now, but it is not the way it should be. By giving all this “good advice” you are saying that it is only right that women should regard themselves as prey.

          What the fuck do you expect from people for giving all this good advice? You want a cookie?

          Thank you, castlebeck, and I apologise to you for the ragey response, but geez, some people just really don’t get it.

          • What? Yes there are a larger amount of male rapist then female but there are still female rapist.
            and you also have to take into the account the fact that most female on male rape probably isn’t reported do to societies standards on masculinity.
            And a rapist is a rapist for a reason they aren’t going to stop what they do, just like a murderer won’t stop nor will a thief. Thinking that they should learn to control themselves is naive and just plain dumb. Cause they wouldn’t have the title if they were able to.

          • No need for apologies, Good Gravy.

            And I have enjoyed your posts through out all of this.

            Keep the faith and stay pure in heart.

  3. Couldn’t agree more – can’t understand why all the onus is put on the woman – this medieval mind set must be restrained or retrained

  4. ROFL!! Can you not all see the Satire in this? I mean, come on, men having to wear blindfolds where ever they go?? How ridiculous.

    Just so you know, I truly believe that women are the main targets for rape, it is a horrible thing, and there has to be SOME way to reduce the violence. Women should also be able to do the same as men: go out dressed the way they want to, have a fun night drinking, or walking home in the dark without fear of rape. But women are treated as if this behavior is what made them a target, and not to behave like that if they want to stay safe.

    Meanwhile, the majority of men continue to behave how they like, without the fear of sexual assault.

    It sucks, and it DOES need to change. But blind folds?????

      • Excuse me, Emily? I understood exactly what that article was doing. And as a 61 year old female that was almost raped once, I do get what is being said. I have lived that careful, clean, restrictive life longer than many of you have been alive.

        As for “people like you”, please explain what people you mean.

    • Satire: I do not think this word means what you think it means.

      Yes, it would be ridiculous for all men to wear blindfolds. This exaggeration is the very point of the post (not a logical flaw for you to point out).

      But… thanks for your second paragraph. At least you get the important part.

      • Andrea Leong, you said, “Satire: I do not think this word means what you think it means.”

        Really? This and the logical flaw I jokingly pointed out is what you criticize my post for? Here is part of the definition for Satire according to Wikipedia:

        “Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon.”

        Hm. Let me think. Yes, that’s pretty much what I think Satire is. I just did not address the constructive social criticism in this particular post. I was too busy laughing, when I pictured men in blindfolds.

        If you look at any of my other posts, I think I pretty much got the message.

      • Okay, reading your response to Emily, it’s a little clearer that you were addressing the people who couldn’t see the satire. Sorry, it just read the opposite way.

        • Thank you.

          This really was a great article, and I’ve shared it on FB. I’ve been around a long time; wore the shag haircut, tie dyed tee shirt, bell bottoms and sandals in the 60s; burned my bra in the 70s (I actually burned several, because they were so small and I wanted to make a large contribution); and did what I could about trying to make my bosses see that a woman that could do the same job as a man, should get paid the same thing.

          This rape issue though, has always angered and frustrated me. It is so skewed that many guilty people have gone free, or spent little or no time in prison. Meanwhile the woman has to deal with her family and friends, many of whom do not understand what happened or why. Families have moved for their own safety, because the perpetrator or family are extremely influential in the community. We are threatened, we are degraded, we are dragged through it all if we decide to go after our rapist, and in many cases the perp walks away free. We’re sluts and live the rest of our lives with the horror, even if we do move away.

          Did you know the ERA was never ratified? So we can’t even fall back on that. There are groups petitioning to go forward with that and get the amendment passed, but I honestly don’t think it will help. If you want to check that out, here is the link:

          https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/vigorously-support-womens-rights-fully-engaging-efforts-ratify-1972-equal-rights-amendment-era/16XQWXpS

          Until men stop treating us as objects, property, or second hand citizens I don’t think things are going to change very much.

          • Castlenbeck: LMAO!! Thanks for the laugh! lol

            “burned my bra in the 70s (I actually burned several, because they were so small and I wanted to make a large contribution)”

  5. FINALLY!!!!! Someone who writes exactly what I’ve been saying for years. Nothing will change until people stop placing any blame on the victims for what they were wearing, where they were, what they were doing etc etc. The rapist is the one who chooses to commit the crime and ALL responsibility is on them, it is their actions that are wrong.

    • You’re right. It IS completely the rapist’s fault. Does assigning fault to the criminal make them less likely to commit their crime? Nope. Does telling a psychopath it’s their fault for killing people solve the problem? No. How about with those nut jobs that kidnap children? If we told them it was their fault for choosing to kidnap a child would it make it less likely for them to stop? No, again.

      There are some really messed up people in the world who will commit crimes no matter what. Women get “blamed” because they choose to live risky, which is probably stupid. Of course, it’s still the rapist’s fault, but hey, I wouldn’t go walking around a dangerous area of a city at night even as a guy. That’s asking to be mugged. You see the parallel here?

      I wouldn’t go to a shady area of a city at night because I don’t want to get mugged. (Once again, I’m a dude).

      So if that logic makes sense (right?), why do people say that WOMEN shouldn’t have to worry about being attacked at night? They should be able be able to walk around naked and alone and still not have to worry about getting attacked? Is THAT what you people are saying?

      So I need to protect myself by staying out of shady areas and constantly look over my shoulder ever night walking home from work… but women shouldn’t have to deal with this? Because they are victims and shouldn’t be blamed?

      Can someone please explain to me the logic behind this? I apparently don’t get it.

      The way I see it. Treat rape like you would treat a mugging (or some other crime… which it is… it’s a crime). In both scenarios, it is obviously the offenders fault, but there are DEFINITELY ways to avoid being in this situation. Don’t travel alone. Don’t get so drunk you can’t tell who’s friend or foe. Don’t walk around with your cellphone out at night because it’s valuable and could attract attention. Don’t dress like a skank and wonder off with random strangers.

      Women seem to think they shouldn’t have to worry about all this. As if they get some free pass because they have a right to expose their body. How is this gender equality?

      • Oh, here we go again.
        FYI – Your problematic attitude is exactly what this satire is about!

        >>There are some really messed up people in the world who will commit crimes no matter what. Women get “blamed” because they choose to live risky, which is probably stupid.<>Of course, it’s still the rapist’s fault, but hey, I wouldn’t go walking around a dangerous area of a city at night even as a guy. That’s asking to be mugged. You see the parallel here?<>The way I see it. Treat rape like you would treat a mugging (or some other crime… which it is… it’s a crime)<>In both scenarios, it is obviously the offenders fault, but there are DEFINITELY ways to avoid being in this situation.<>Don’t get so drunk you can’t tell who’s friend or foe.<>Don’t walk around with your cellphone out at night because it’s valuable and could attract attention.<>Don’t dress like a skank and wonder off with random strangers.<>Women seem to think they shouldn’t have to worry about all this<<<

        No one *should* have to worry about this. Just as no one *should* have to worry about getting mugged. In reality, this happens as nothing is ever 100% safe We know that – we'd just like, you know, justice *when* bad things happen to us instead of getting the blame for what happened on top of that.

        • there is no justice. we were all sold on the idea of justice, but what passes for justice in this world is to throw the rapist in jail. there, in jail, they will either be raped (which, if you’re a vengeful person, you might consider justice), or they will rape someone else (I’m guessing this isn’t justice, even to the vengeful types). prisons have innocent gentle people in them, and people who were guilty of things that SHOULDN’T be crimes at all. do these people deserve another rapists in their midst? what justice do you think can be served in this world?

          perhaps the closest to justice we could get would be for the victim and the rapist to, while monitored, have a conversation, until the rapist is able to empathize and see what they’ve done and the pain they’ve caused. this might have a chance of healing the core suffering of the victim and the rapist. and, if the rapist is truly unable to empathize, truly unable to find any kind of human compassion, even after many attempts…shoot them. don’t lock them away in rape-torture facilities for years, during which they become even more removed from humanity, and learn only new and more profound cruelties.

      • Ok, the thing that gets me about the mugging analogy is that we still treat muggers as criminals. Yes, it’s true that people might tell you that you should have avoided that shady part of town that late on a Saturday night, but they won’t for an instant think that the mugger shouldn’t be prosecuted and to to jail. Yet in a great deal of rape cases, whether the survivor was attacked walking home from a bar or in her own home by a “friend”, people will ask what she was wearing, or if she was drunk, or say that she’s had lots of sex before, or any number of irrelevant questions, and then use those as reasons why the rapist wasn’t really guilty of anything.

        And food for thought for you on the prevalence of rapes that occur on the way home like muggings: according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, “38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by “an intimate” and 7% by another relative, and [only] 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim’s own home.” Is it “living risky” to be in your own home with a friend? With your significant other? With a relative?

        Finally, I leave you with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95-IL3C-Z8

        • > Ok, the thing that gets me about the mugging analogy is that we still treat muggers as criminals.

          No – any criminals are presumed innocent until proven guilty, at least in western courts.

          Yes – there are A LOT of sex-based stereotypes around that don’t benefit women reporting rape, but all crimes need to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and that makes the “he said/she said” cases extremely difficult to prove.

          What you think is “irrelevant” is extremely relevant to the legal system in order to prosecute successfully. No prosecutors like to lose cases because it slows/jeopardizes their careers, so if you want to win, help them to help you by giving all relevant facts and stand up under questioning, because the defense be even harder.

  6. As a man who knows how to present himself and act in public, I am completely and absolutely insulted by this hate speech directed towards all men. If you are going to attack an isolated group of men who have no idea how to control themselves around women, kindly isolate them and don’t insinuate that it applies to all men.

    • So tell me, how do we separate you from the rapist who knows how to present himself and act in public? How do we tell you apart until one of you acts? And even then, that’s no guarantee that you won’t also act?

      Most rapists ARE indignant when accused. And come from all walks of life. And state they would NEVER do such a thing.

      We women, when raped are all treated as guilty of doing something wrong. The way we dress, that we’re sluts, that we led someone on. We are ALL treated the same way and lumped into one category. No matter how carefully we lived our lives we are all Whores.

      If you don’t want lumped in with all the men, how do we tell you apart?

      • hey JAck… there’s these things called satire and sarcasm, which is beyond your brain power.
        I mean, seriously, all it is is a brilliant role reversal from victim blaming to blaming someone just because they’re a male….

      • Let say that 0.1% of men are rapist and 50% of women get raped. It would be much more efficient to lump all women together than men since hardly any man ever rape but (according to feminists) huge amout of women get raped.

        It does not make any sense to bother 99.9% men about this issue which is clearly between 50% of women and 0.1% of men.

        • Hahahahahahaha…that’s so statistically sensible. That’s why the 50 percent of the women put together (and supported by the other 50 percent, and an odd 10 percent or so of the 99 percent of the non rapist men) decided to make laws to suit themselves. Since they are the largely affected faction. Makes sense? As you say, the 0.1 percent are so hard to find, that there’s no use for so many women to go the length to sort out so many men and ban only the rapists. Hence, the whole lot has to be bothered. Sorry about that man! Its just that the women united faster than the men who appeared to be too factious and calculating weird percentages. Really though, you amuse me.

        • Sorry to “bother” you non-rapist men (the 95-97% of you), but do you realise you actually have to help if you want to see a reduction in the rates of sexual assault? Who are sexually violent men going to listen to… women?

          Next time you hear someone make a rape joke, or blame a victim, don’t brush it off as not your problem. Be the good guy you claim to be and point out that that’s what makes it so difficult to report rape.

          Or, if you prefer, ignore it, but stop claiming to care. No man is an island.

          • Andrea – re: rape jokes. I’ve served in the military, and there is nothing worse than fearing you won’t get promoted or be a cohesive team if you don’t laugh at a rape joke with all of your brothers-in-arms. The culture persists.

          • Nothing worse, Tisiphone? Really? Nothing at all? Nothing that maybe this thread might bring to mind? Nothing that might, in a small way, continue to be allowable if you aren’t willing to sacrifice promotion in a rapist culture?

          • Tisiphone: I’m sorry that such a culture persists, and I’m sorry no one has the guts to not laugh if they don’t find it funny.

          • Yes, Molly. It’s the choice between the very real possibility you might die or by crippled due to lack of cohesion or actual malice, and possibly contributing to the culture of rape which has affected a larger percentage of military women than most other professions in the industrialized world, potentially even yourself. The third option being, of course, what the men are suggesting, and avoiding the profession altogether.

          • I’m just gonna weigh in here to say that I’m a woman, and I’ve been raped, but even before the rape happened I took simple precautions to prevent -any- form of violent incident, rape, mugging or otherwise. I still walk alone, and I still dress however I want to dress, but I keep a can of mace within easy reach. If a stranger attempts to lay a hand on me, he OR she will be given one short, firm warning. If he or she persists, I will not hesitate to melt the eyeballs out of his or her fucking skull.

            Now, did I start carrying this can of mace on the advice of a patronizing male acquaintance? No. Did I do it out of fear of being raped? NO. I started carrying mace because it is easy to use, easy to conceal, non-lethal, and because regardless of what some might say, it IS stupid to go wandering around at night by yourself. What happens to be present between your legs has nothing to do with it. This has just always been the case.

            Back in the day, it was bandits, highwaymen and wild beasts you had to be concerned about. Now the bandits and highwaymen have evolved into muggers and gang members and the wild beasts have taken the form of sexually aggressive human beings. Same shit, different day. You can blame people, places and things until the cows come home, but at the end of the day a rifle will prove far more effective in dealing with predators than righteous indignation.

        • 0.1%?? Apparently you do very little reading. In strong research by scientists such as David Lisak, Paul M. Miller, and Stephanie K. McWhorter, the percentage of male college students surveyed who ADMITTED to raping was 6%, and among male military recruits the rate was 13%. In one of their studies, 63% of the rapists admitted to serial raping, with an average of 5.6 rapes per man. In Lisak & Miller’s research, a sample of 1900 men reported just under 4000 rapes or attempted rapes, though 4% of the men surveyed were responsible for over 1000 of the incidents. Lisak & Miller’s work is available here–the paper is at the end of the PDF, and a fact sheet about rape statistics is at the beginning of the PDF: http://www2.binghamton.edu/counseling/documents/RAPE_FACT_SHEET1.pdf

          The relevant McWhorter paper is here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19459400

          For a simple rundown of their work, http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

          • @Tisiphone it’s people like you that cause the culture to persist, if someone says something that you don’t like don’t force laugh at it, and if it’s something that truly offends you call them out right then and there, get some courage and stand up for what you believe in, regardless of promotions or other shit. If you’re “brothers-at-arms” truly respect you they will take note of what you say

      • You are a baby killing, child molesting skank of a whore castlebeck.

        Oh, sorry, did I offend you. Well you know, I can’t know that you are not a baby killing, child molesting skank of a whore. So let’s just assume that you are one. Because I have no way of knowing that you are or are not, until you act.

        So just to be sure, I’ll put you in the “baby killing, child molesting skank of a whore” class of people, ok?

        • What, you couldn’t put me in a more dangerous group? As a “baby killing, child molesting skank of a whore” I’m no danger to you at all.

          Why not make me a teacher. Then I would be a real threat to idiots and morons like you.

          But hey, whatever rocks your boat, baby.

    • LOL dude if this offends you, you probably don’t understand what women go through, your white dude privillege makes you blind. this is SATIRE. This is exactly what MEN tell us women when we get raped. YOU dont get it, but I am willing to bet you tell these things to women all the time.

      • This is what satire looks like. Learn to look at a social deconstruction without getting your pants in a bunch. This is EXACTLY what women are told ALL THE TIME.

        “Don’t walk alone.” “Don’t wear your hair in a ponytail.” “Walk with your keys between your knuckles.” “You just can’t walk in that part of town.” “Don’t wear a skirt on public transit.” “That skirt is so short you’re asking for it.” “You have to take your safety into your own hands, or you’re just looking to be raped.”

        So, Mr. Oh-So-Offended, welcome to our world. Hope you enjoy it from the cheap seats where you can go back to being safe to walk to your car when you’re done reading this blog.

        • “You just can’t walk in that part of town.” If you really have to walk around the shadier parts of town, “Don’t walk alone.” If you really have to wander around the shadier parts of town on your own, “Walk with your keys between your knuckles.”

          “You have to take your safety into your own hands, or you’re just looking to be raped[/mugged/beaten and left lying in a ditch.]”

          All pretty sound advice. Regardless of gender. If you don’t follow it, you are making yourself vulnerable to BAD PEOPLE who will do BAD THINGS to you. They are responsible for their actions; you are, sadly, responsible for your own safety.

          It’s a ‘pervasive cultural more’ called “Who The Fuck Else Do You Expect To Watch Your Back?”

          • Sure, but for women, it extends to:
            “Don’t wear a skirt so short/a top so low-cut/so much make-up/such high heels.”
            “Don’t get drunk.”
            “Don’t flirt with guys at parties.”
            “Don’t act like you might be interested.”
            “Don’t go home with a guy for consensual sex, because then you’re just asking for acts you didn’t agree to and for all his mates to join in.”

          • @ Andrea 2045
            “Don’t get drunk.”
            Seems legit. If you are not in control of yourself, someone might take advantage of you. They might take your wallet. They might do worse.

            “Don’t go home with a guy for consensual sex, because then you’re just asking for acts you didn’t agree to and for all his mates to join in.”
            Too bloody right don’t go home with a guy for consensual sex! Until, of course, you decide that you trust this person enough that you can go with them, unprotected, to their place of residence, confident that they will not rape you.

            I don’t go back to strange men’s houses. Mainly for fear that he and his mates might have strange and unusual plans.

            The attitude that all this advice is oppressive and unfair looks to me like an attempt to shirk responsibility for your own safety. This responsibility is not dependent on the gender of the person in question.

          • There are situations where it should be safe to get drunk — and I mean silly, not paralytic — like in the common room of your on-campus accommodation at uni. There are situations when it should be safe to go home with someone, like if you’ve been dating for a couple of months.

            You are right that the responsibilities are not gender based, but I have the strong impression that the apportioning of blame is.

            That said, maybe cases what I see in the media is skewed towards this view. The accusation that the victim was leading their attacker on may well be levelled against men in many cases, and if so, I apologise, it is my ignorance showing.

          • I agree, those situations should be safe. It’s sad but true that there is a chance they will not be.

            ‘Leading someone on’ should not be an offence punishable by rape – nor should ‘being drunk’ or ‘walking alone’ or ‘wearing a short skirt’. That is obviously not a justified response.

            What I find most dangerous is the idea, without context, that you shouldn’t have to take precautions, since: men should control themselves, and not do nasty deeds.

            Which is on righteous grounds morally, but dangerous practically. ‘Taking precautions’ might sound patronising, or outright offensive, but it’s not. I take precautions everyday. I hope someone else can see that while they SHOULDN’T have to, they unfortunately do.

          • I do agree, fayre. By way of analogy, we still look both ways at a pedestrian crossing, because negligent drivers might run the lights. No one finds this patronising.

            I just get carried away because some people choose to actually blame the victims.

            I suspect some people like to say these things because it makes them feel safer. I suspect people like to start with: “Well, if he/she hadn’t done X, Y and Z, this wouldn’t have happened to him/her,” and then extrapolate to: as long as they avoid X, Y and Z, they will be absolutely safe from all rape (not just the proportion of rapes perpetrated in identifiably dangerous situations). They can believe that rape is something that doesn’t happen to someone like them.

            As I said, this is just a little suspicion that I have, and not backed up by anything at all.

          • This is two months late, but I thought Andrea would like to be aware that it’s not just her hypothesis. Blaming the victim is related to the Just World hypothesis, and there is research to back it up.

    • You’re offended by this satire? Aaaah pobrecito. My heart bleeds for you! \ end sarcasm.

      You should try living the way *we* do, even for but one day. I think it would really open your eyes.

    • So… basically, you don’t want to have to rearrange your life, be restricted from certain professions, and live in paranoia because the presence of somebody of your gender in certain situations is statistically more likely to result in rape? Hmm…

      [What I find really amazing in reading these comments is how outraged men are at the mere theoretical concept of dealing with what women have to deal with on a daily basis. We all need to be screaming as loudly as they are.]

    • Tell me Jack, what do you actively do to prevent other men raping? Anything? Or do you just regard as “one of those things in life”?

      Because unless you take personal responsibility (see my earlier comment) then you may as well openly call yourself a rape apologist.

      Well what do I do? Yeah I can hear you thinking. Well, for starters I get involved with forums like this, trying hard to get through to other men how they ARE responsible. How they CAN effect change. How they can talk to other men about this. How they can refuse to accept a language that creates a culture of fear and blame. How they can behave around other men, especially young men and boys. How they can be critically aware of the words they use and what they mean. Do you really want me to go on?

      Because I live these principles. Oh but of course some people grew up in hateful backgrounds. True, they sure do. I know it all too well. I grew up in a family where my father constantly ridiculed my mother, where women generally were devalued, where misogyny was rife. Where a brother was a skinhead who was extremely racist and homophobic. In a culture full of devaluing language. So, pre-empting a response, you’ll excuse me if I don’t accept “background” as a reason not to take responsibility.

      Like I said, as a man who knows how to interact with others with integrity and respect, I have no problem whatsoever. Even if it wasn’t satire.

      • So, just curious. You also acknowledge and accept that women are just as much at fault for rape then as men are? Many women remain silent just like men, and become rape “apologists”. They may say nay nay to rape, but do nothing real about it, like most everyone on this planet. By your belief, from what I can understand of it, you are saying that everyone is responsible for rape if they do nothing to stop it. Correct me if I am wrong please mate.

          • Hmm, I’d say that everyone has to take responsibility rather than labeling a single group. We all share this earth and no group can do it alone in my opinion. I’ve told people off at track meets for slamming my friends of different cultures, but if the people of that same culture nervously laugh it off it doesn’t help drive the point home. Regardless, men as part of the race inhabiting this planet have a responsibility to stand up against sexual abuse of men and women, just as much as women do I think. Hopefully that seems fair. Thanks for explaining gravey.

          • “The offender class”? Now that’s getting a bit extreme. I would have said the classes are: rapists, rape apologists, people who say they oppose rape culture but don’t stick their neck out, and people who actively oppose rape culture.

            Once we start dividing along gender lines, don’t we start to deny sexual violence perpetrated by women? Or do you think this subset of rape and assault is a separate issue, and that women should be in charge of addressing that one? Would’t it make more sense if we all worked together?

          • I use the term “offender class” to describe the group of people who are so dominantly featured in the stats of those who cause harm.

            Of those who rape, the vast majority are male. It is a male problem. everybody needs to work on it, but it is our problem, and we need to change.

            It is therefore the responsibility of all men to bring that about. We cannot say to women “please help us because not only can we cannot handle our urges for power and sex, we also are to pathetic to help ourselves”. Even though that is patently the attitude most of those commenting here see time and again.

            Because I’m not a woman, I’d never dream of saying women need to change with regard to their sexual violence against others. It is, however, kinda implicit in my term “offender class”. However you classify them, if you are a member of that classification (the ones doing harm) then you need to take responsibility for others in that classification.

            Because clearly the offenders won’t, and it shouldn’t be up to the “victim class” (meaning the term in exactly the same way), to do the work.

            I know the terms “…class” upset some people. I apologise for that unreservedly. My only defence is I cannot find another term to explain what I am thinking. Which is perhaps individual responsibility for group activity.

          • You are using the term “offender class” to define all men as responsible for rape. This is not acceptable.

            Of those who rape, the whole majority are rapists. It is not a male problem. It is everybody’s problem, and yes, it does need to change.

            It is NOT, therefore, the responsibility of all men to bring that about.

            Again, you classify ‘men’ as the group responsible for rape. Because rapists are men, you say men must take responsibility for the actions of rapists.

            Offenders won’t take responsiblity for rape. You’ll also notice that they are reluctant to take responsibility for murder, theft and fraud. This doesn’t make your “victim class” responsible for the crimes, nor does it make everyone else responsible for them. The perpetrator is responsible for their crime.

            Your use of “class” is disingenuous. Promoting individual responsiblity for group activity is not justified. You cannot blame “men” for the actions of rapists.

        • And it really was specifically target at the men who say things like Jack has done here.

          Sorry if it wasn’t clear. I was not particularly happy when I wrote it.

          It happens when I see men complain about being “lumped in” with the actual offenders, but aren’t prepared to make a difference so that they no longer need to be.

          • Hey no need to apologize, I understand. This isn’t exactly the easiest topic to discuss without feeling some kind of emotion. I mean, I really dislike being generalized as a male as any female would vice versa, especially given my abuse at the hands of a step mother. It is unfortunate though that it’s become so bad that we have to lump men in with offenders, rather than say that real men would never rape, thus removing offenders from being in the pool of “men”. That’d be a victory for both sides I think.

    • it’s pretty enraging, huh? feeling attacked and blamed this way? congratulations, you’ve experienced a very small (and fleeting) fraction of what it feels like to be a woman every single day.

      welcome to the point of the article; i.e. not blaming women for men raping them.

      • Ehrmm
        Thats a bit oversimplified. I as a woman(and for the notes: I as a woman was a culprit. I committed domestic violence against my male boyfriend.(he was also a victim of rape-but was raped by another man)
        They didnt believed him, the police officer laughed at him and sayd, he were gay and would be ashamed of it and that it weren’t rape because he hadn’t fought enough(and because of that he thought that my expartner wanted to blame his “boyfriend”(rapist)
        (English is not my native language so its fairly hard for me to tell what I mean, I hope this problem with the police is understandable..)

        He never tried again.
        And he told me he never talked about the time I abused him physically.

        This was a long time ago, we have talked about it-we met after 5 years again- and I solved my aggression-problem.

        But the biggest problem and that prevails-nobody believed him until I told them-and even than this was downplayed(he got a serious mental problem because of me.(anxiety) he learned never to hit woman and he never did..so he re-experienced the fear and helplessness he felt while he was raped-and now he was physically abused by one that he loved and couldn’t fight back… :/
        There is not enough shame for this :/

        • Oh my… I missed this comment when you posted it, ka. I’m glad you worked through your aggression and hope your ex is healing if not healed. And I’m deeply saddened at the thought of male accounts of abuse being laughed off by the authorities who are supposed to protect their citizens.

    • The point is that it makes about as much sense to put controls on all men because of rapists as it does to put controls on all women because of rapists. That we should blame rapists for rape. And the ridiculousness of saying men shouldn’t be allowed out alone highlights how ridiculous it is to say it about women.

    • Oh I get it. I get that I am being swept into a group of men who act in ways that I never will, and never would consider acting for the purpose of sensationalism and propaganda. Any man who has seen what rape is and what it can do to a woman both physically and emotionally would be insulted to be thought to be on the same level as a rapist simply because they share the same gender. I get it. I’ve seen it. I refuse to be associated with it by anyone for any reason.

      • Jack, your refusal to be “associated with [rape] by anyone for any reason” is part of why you don’t get it.

        You have the luxury to refuse to be associated with it, and to go about your everyday business without wondering if you will be subject to having your day utterly ruined by sexual harassment or sexual violence. You have the luxury to go about your business without being told that the reason that some stranger came running up behind you said, “Hey, baby, you’ve got a great ass, what’s your number?” or grabbing your tits on the bus is because the way you were dressed was so sexually provocative that some man couldn’t be expected to restrain himself. (Those have both happened to me. In the great-ass case, I was wearing business slacks and a blouse and walking to work; on the bus I was wearing jeans and a polo shirt. And for the record, I’m 5’9″ and weigh 230 so it’s not like I’m going to be posing for America’s Next Top Model anytime soon.) You don’t have to worry that some man will decide to grab and grope you in a hotel elevator, because you’re a woman alone in a hotel elevator. You don’t have to worry that saying something benign like “good morning” will be taken as sexual provocation. You don’t have to worry that the response to being groped, catcalled, threatened, harassed, flashed, followed, and yes, raped, will be somebody telling you that you needed to change your behaviour: wear more modest clothes (baggy jeans and polo shirt?), never go anywhere unaccompanied, never go out at night, never talk to strange men for any reason (including such sexually provocative things like, “what time is it?” or “watch out, the floor is slippery”). In other words, YOU are never told that you have to police YOUR body and YOUR behaviour because of something that somebody is doing to you.

        The other part you missed: you were so busy being offended by the satire of demanding that men be controlled to prevent rape that you utterly and totally missed out how offensive and demeaning it is to the victims–male and female, young and old, and let’s not forget prisoners–to be told that we must always have our bodies and our selves restricted because we don’t have the help and unwavering support of non-jackhole men in dealing with the dangerous ones.

        • Very very well said, Clytemnestra’s Sister.

          All we wanted to do with this satire was to let men know what it’s like to BE an innocent victim. It’s not very pleasant to be told you can’t control yourself (even though you know you can) and you need to take steps to keep yourself safe. And even if you do everything to be safe, you’re good, you don’t sleep around, you don’t dress provocatively, you don’t go out partying, and you are either ALWAYS home before dark, or you’re accompanied by people you trust, if you ARE raped, you’re still at fault!!

          And we don’t like taking that kind of blame anymore than Jack does. WE don’t deserve to wear the “blindfolds” any more than Jack does. But WE have to live with it every day of our lives. Jack only has to live with it for as long as he remembers this article.

          Go he can go ahead and be indignant about all this, but I don’t think we ladies are going to be too sympathetic.

        • (((((((Applause)))))))))))
          I just love it when I must exit it an elevator, if I’m alone, if an “unknown” male enters that same elevator.

          But shame on me for classifying the “unknown” male as a potential rapist. Damn whores! Always blaming!

          • Indeed. What a shame you have the attitude that any unknown male is a rapist. That must be a terrifying way to live your life.

          • Fayre, yes it is a terrifying way to live your life.

            Maybe you are getting it after all. Because this IS life for most women. And again all those who are disproportionately represented in rape victim stats.

      • In fact, no. That is not what is happening. You are wrong. Apparently you are too dense to understand why you are wrong. I suggest you go away and think about this for a couple of days before inflicting any more of your ignorance on the world.

      • No, Jack, in fact you don’t get it. The concept at issue here is that women are blamed for their rapes. They are told to stop doing jobs that put them in danger; they are told to wear less revealing clothing; they are told to stay in at night. None of that is right.

        The point of this quite brilliantly written satire isn’t that we should instead limit men’s freedoms. It’s that it’s ridiculous to treat women as though they should prevent the crimes committed against them.

        The solution here is that we focus on ending rape, not on ending women’s “provocation” of rape.

        Nobody’s lumping you in with men who rape women. They are simply asking you to consider how it must feel to have someone tell you that you can’t go out after curfew because some man may forget that he’s not supposed to rape you. It’s at least mildly more logical to restrict freedoms on the people who fit the profile of being likely to commit the crime, but the point is that it’s not fucking logical at all.

        Now get the stick out of your ass and take a minute to consider what it’s like to know that you have a 1 in 6 chance of being the victim of rape or attempted rape. Think about what it might be like to have been raped and fear telling your family because they will blame you. Think about what it would be like to be the family of a woman who was raped and murdered by 6 men who also beat the crap out of her male friend and to have it be said in trial that her male friend was “wholly responsible” for the incident because he failed to protect her, and, oh yeah, this sort of thing has never happened to a respected woman in some idiot lawyer’s experience. Now tell me if we’re really not allowed a little satire . . . what else are we supposed to do inside after our curfew? Make you a sandwich?

        • @Lynn
          LMAO! “what else are we supposed to do inside after our curfew? Make you a sandwich”?

          “I love you women!” lol

      • So you don’t like being defined negatively by your gender. I guess the article did what it was supposed to then. If I go out at night in a tight dress just under my bum with high heals and make up and get a bit tipsy and dance, am I a slut? Am I asking for it, because I look sexy? Funny, that’s what it means if I dress like that apparently. I’m not allowed to want to look good unless I want to look good for men, and even the men who hate rape, the degrading and categorising of women, who “refuse to be associated with it by anyone for any reason” see me as a slut. But please, be indignant by all means

        • Let’s not conflate “slut” with “asking to be assaulted”. One can seek out all the consensual casual sex in the world; it’s still a contradiction in terms to be asking for assault.

        • What surprises me most is that you feel the need to wear a dress that just covers your bum and high heels to feel sexy. Sexy … has a whole different meaning. Something/someone can be sexy without revealing that much.

          Anyway, as Bill Burr said it: “you may not be a whore, but you sure wear the uniform”. Can’t put it better than that.

          That still doesn’t mean you’re a slut, or that you are asking for it. I totally agree with that. But you put a spotlight on yourself that way. Don’t be surprised if people, and the wrong people, notice.

          • So apparently it’s still her fault in wanting to look good in a way she chooses? Why are you trying to shame her for the way she dresses? Sexy is different for you then her so what? Sexy is different for everyone. But she should not be shamed for an outfit. That is exactly what you are doing. You are still blaming her for the actions, or potential actions of another.

          • its not about blame. it’s about reality. men have been programmed from a young to be sexually responsive to certain stimulus. when women intentionally brandish that stimulus (i.e. dresses to look sexy), they get sexual attention (which, a great deal of the time, they want…hence choosing to brandish that stimulus). unfortunately, they don’t get sexual attention ONLY from the men they want. they get it from men they don’t want…some of whom might be rapists. it sucks. it would be great if it wasn’t so…but there is nothing that anyone can do about it. technically, only the rapist and the victim had any control over a rape (unless there are onlookers or people who let it happen). since the rapist is obviously not going to take responsibility, it us to the people who might become victims to do so.

            other than that, we can, as a society, have a serious talk about what creates vulnerabilities and try to limit them in as unobtrusive a way as possible (such as installing motion detecting lights, or installing alarm posts, or so on). still, it is always a good idea for each person to seek out and remove their personally created vulnerabilities. this is sane and proper advise for all people in all situations which they wish to avoid, regardless of who is to blame when they happen.

    • Right. Two comments, and the second one switches the subject to how men are victims too.

      Fine. Men are victims? Let’s start seeing some men found support groups for men who are victims of rape. Let’s start seeing men funding shelters for men who have escaped from abusive relationships. Let’s start seeing some men circulate petitions for legislation to protect men from women who rape them. After all, the numbers are so huge.

      The majority of sexual assaults are committed by men against women and children. I want to stop sexual assaults and rape- or at least, reduce the numbers. Therefore I want to address the people who are committing the greatest number of rapes and assaults. Once we’ve achieved that, then I’m perfectly willing to go after the remaining few who assault men. It’s just a question of (1) wanting to reduce the number of assaults and (2) utilizing resources efficiently.

      I feel the same way about people who are ill with some obscure disorder that only affects three people worldwide. I have sympathy for them, but since funding is limited, I want to send it towards research that will help make advances against disorders that affect millions of people- like diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

      You guys lead the away working on woman rapists, okay? That ought to keep you out of trouble for a day or so every few years.

      • The worst part about your having to make this response is that men ARE victims too. The majority of men in the USA who are raped or have been raped are either under 18, or in prison. The VAST majority of them have been raped by adult men, with adult women raping minor boys coming in far distant second. And you know what? THEY ARE VICTIMS TOO. THEY HAVE BEEN BLAMED AND SHAMED TOO. THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT IT’S ALL IN THEIR HEAD, OR THEY’RE MAKING IT UP, THAT IT WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED TO THEM IF THEY HAD JUST DONE XXXX OR THEY’RE IN PRISON SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM DOESN’T MATTER.

        The kids who were raped by Jerry Sandusky and a variety of Catholic priests were told that it couldn’t have happened, Sandusky was a good man and an upstanding member of the community. Among other things, Sandusky founded an organisation ostensibly to teach poor kids football, and used that to find, groom, and rape children. The kids who were abused by priests were told that it couldn’t have happened, that the priests were good members of the community. There is an investigation in the UK open right now on a recently deceased childrens’ TV show host, Jimmy Savile, who used his position as a childrens’ TV show host to find, manipulate, groom, and rape children who were guests on his show, and this went on for six decades. You know what happened? Those kids got a watered-down sorry from the BBC, and no investigation into the crimes until after the man was dead for over a year. As for prison rape, can anybody seriously look me in the eye and tell me that a 22-year-old in prison for possession deserves to be brutally assaulted?

        When men let out a knee-jerk cry of, “But men get raped too!” they are using it as two things: a dismissal, IOW that because it happens to both women and men that women shouldn’t get “special” treatment (aka having the laws on the books about rape and assault fucking enforced already, or asking the men who are around them to HELP THEM deal with the predators amongst them), and as a refusal to speak truth to power, including themselves.

        The truth-to-power is couched in terms of how pleasant a bad actor can be to the men around them: you hear men talk about how somebody was such a nice guy! or, we can’t charge this kid with rape, it will ruin his whole life. Never mind that he may have been one of the boys who gang-raped an 11-year-old girl in Conroe, and never mind that HER life was just screwed up beyond imagining.

        So yeah, fuck that noise. And men who make that argument, look long and hard at yourself–because you’re saying it’s more important to live in a society in which your first impression of somebody who looks like you trumps all instead of taking care of EVERYBODY in society, and if somebody is friendly and polite to you, it doesn’t matter what he does to the women in his life or the children in his life.

    • I guess I Don’t Get It either. Getting murdered is pretty bad too. Aside from being underrepresented on college campuses, men get murdered at 4+ times the rate in North America and are overrepresented in life-risking jobs like the military and manufacturing. Yet to dismiss that as the fault of “men” is something called the individualistic fallacy. …More reason to lock your fathers, brothers and sons. Not to fight discrimination and prejudice with discriminatory and prejudicial satire…

      • Yep. You’re sure not getting it. The whole thing is about blaming the offenders.

        So tell me, with these murders that mostly happen to men, who are the murderers?

        And oh, the fucking life risking jobs bullshit. Yes you are a douchecanoe. I would say “of the first order” but you’re not even that good.

        If you are that concerned about the plight of men, do something about it. Maybe take a lesson from these awesome women instead of being a troll.

      • @justanotherdouchebag While your comment is of little relevance to this post, I would just like to respond to you by saying that in regards to many of the things you have mentioned you must look at patriarchy to understand how and why many of these things occur.
        Men are overrepresented in these areas because men said women were too “fragile’ to participate in many of the jobs and institutions dominated by men.
        Many of the things men frequently complain about are inextricably linked to the construction of our society as patriarchal.
        Please do not mistake this comment as one that is intended to male bash, or blame men… I am simply stating that there are many facets of our society that, while some may think only affect one gender, actually affect everyone.
        Victim blaming of female rape victims puts the onus on women to protect themselves at all times from all men.. Men should be equally offended by this as it creates an unfair belief that all men have the potential for rape and that no man can be trusted! Please understand that victim blaming hurts EVERYONE !

        • > Men are overrepresented in these areas because men said women were too “fragile’ to participate in many of the jobs and institutions dominated by men.

          Is it just because “men” said so, or does it actually map to reality? If women aren’t in general weaker, why are rape victims mostly women? Why don’t all these strong women just overpower the perpetrators?

          If women joining military are all as strong as the men, why do people claim rapes are prevalent in military?

          You can’t argue both ways.

          Men have grave concerns of putting women into dangerous positions, because they can barely protect themselves out there, and won’t be able to watch over any woman who needs additional protecting.

          Some women are as strong as any men, but they are the exception to the rule, and it’s up to them to prove themselves to the skeptics, just like it’s up to men to prove that they are not Schrodinger rapists.

          > Many of the things men frequently complain about are inextricably linked to the construction of our society as patriarchal.

          Men seldom complain about these things until they feel like they are accused of “being a man is evil”, because everything is being laid at the feet of “patriarchy”. Most men are by-and-large okay with their lots in life, even if it’s the dirtiest jobs, because that helps them take care their families.

          Feminists identifies patriarchy as the problem – have they spend time understanding why it arise in the first place? I.e. is it really true that men conspired together against women, or is it out of the necessity given the history?

          > Victim blaming of female rape victims puts the onus on women to protect themselves at all times from all men..

          Victim blaming is wrong, period.

          But please understanding the reality of this world – it’s not some make-believe feminist utopia. It’s far from perfect, and it will never be.

          We ARE ALL each responsible for protecting ourselves.

  7. Pingback: Sharing the love « The Lady Garden

  8. This IS the logical solution to the reported claims of helplessness of such men..a blanket rule applied, until blokes influenced their mates into not treating women in such dastardly ways…
    Great post!

  9. Yeah… I see what you’re trying to say, but it’s just like the ‘stupid male’ trope on TV shows. It’s so absurd you almost want to laugh, but it doesn’t help advance our society and break it loose from the medieval attitudes we’re currently stuck with.

    My mom raised me to see women as *PEOPLE*, and not just as “the opposite sex”.

    Maybe if more women raised their sons this way, there would be some real change.

    Just a thought.

    • oh my god are you for freaking real, what else do you want women to do, wipe your ass for you?

      How about MEN taking responsibility for once.

          • It’s a shame you have to live your life in such a miserable state of fear and paranoia. It’s equally disappointing that people have such little faith in humanity to have decent and good people. Guilty until proven innocent it seems here…

          • You don’t. In order for your point to have some relevance, you’ll need to explain what your limited knowledge of someone has to do with their responsibility for other people’s crimes.

          • How curious, @Alex, that what you seem to be intending is for women, who are so often targets of small and large assaults, to be more trusting of everybody, even the rapists who walk among us. I wonder why you would want that?

            Hint: this is a trick question.

            You are saying is that if women were to be more trusting of rapists this would be a better world for everyone. It doesn’t strike me it would be a better world for the women that rapists would have an easier time raping.

    • @Johan Broad – Right back to placing the blame on the woman.

      “Maybe if more women raised their sons this way, there would be some real change.”

      I guess, in your special little world, men are incompetent & useless.
      If a man rapes – its the fault of the women that raised him.
      Keep it coming – you’re making “our” point for the reason that this satire is used.

    • Because fathers, brothers and uncles continue to teach the baby boys sexism, and that they are superior to their mothers and can disregard their mothers teachings.

  10. Pingback: If your son asks “why do girls want to dress like sluts?” « blue milk

  11. Jack –
    The article is trying to bring to light what normally happens in the media with this subject. Victims have been and still are told things like you shouldn’t have had that much to drink, or been wearing a “slutty” outfit, or been walking home so late at night alone. By saying “she asked for it” its suggesting that all men are rapists, and by seeing a girl/woman so drunk she can’t walk any man wouldn’t be able to help but rape her. You should not be offended by this post that come from a place of humor, you should be offended by the posts blaming victims of this type of horrendous crime.

  12. You make a good point, Johan. But victim- blaming and slut- shaming isn’t confined to men. Many women buy into the idea of “asking for it”, too. This is really not at all related to the “stupid male” trope & really has nothing to do with men at all.

    It’s about rape culture and the antiquated attitudes that keep it alive.

    • @Lota – You are absolutely correct. Both men AND women do the “slut-shaming”, blame the victim nonsense. It is the rape culture we speak of.

      It infuriates me even more when I hear it coming from women.
      Women that, they themselves have been, in some point in their lives, groped, cat-called, slut-shamed, blamed and avoided certain places/areas because of owning that dangerous/alluring, must be raped vagina.

  13. This is the most ignorant thing I have read all day, and I have read a lot. 6% of men will commit a sexual assault during their lifetime it says. Ok so let’s punish the other 94%. Wow…………
    Then “We know that not all men are rapists, and that some men can probably be trusted to present tv shows safely,” said the director of Televisions Within Borders, a professional group that promotes the welfare of TV hosts and the people they cover. “However, now we know that some men can’t. And why take the risk? There are plenty of qualified women who can do this job instead.”……well she could have un-diagnosed mental problems. Why take that risk? Why take any risk? I guess just forget having anybody do the job or go outside. It would be better than this gross discrimination.
    Then we have “You wouldn’t send a cocaine addict to do a Good Morning America segment about a big pile of cocaine,” said a blogger who calls himself “UltimateMindz.” “Letting men be TV presenters is basically the same thing.” That post has since been shared more than 180 times on twitter, and has garnered nearly 2000 Facebook “likes.” Wow….not even close! because we know that the cocaine addict is a cocaine addict! We are not just making blind assumptions, like all men are cocaine addicts or all women are cocaine addicts!

    • Chalk up another one for the Not Getting It Brigade.

      Yeah, it’s ridiculous: only 6% of men rape, so why should the rest of them have to restrict their freedoms?

      Yet it’s not ridiculous to say that because 20% of women are raped, 97% of the time by men, women should have their freedoms restricted?

      That is the point. This is satire. It is an analogy. The author is not literally calling for men to wear blindfolds, just as Jonathan Swift was not literally advocating the eating of infants.

      Look it up.

      • I haven’t actually seen any legislation proposed to limit women’s freedom in order to avoid them being raped. is there any? or do you think that taking measurable precautions to protect yourself from a dangerous world is tantamount to having your freedom restricted? you might not be far off.

        when I wanted to live with my wife, who is from a different country than me, I had to take into account that human beings are stupid and have erected ridiculous things nations and borders. I had to pay money to this construct called a government for the right to exist with my wife on different soil. no matter how stupid or insane I thought it is, it still exists, and I have to protect myself or potentially face consequences.

        the same is true of ALL things. negative consequence stemming from human stupidity and insanity are everywhere. we ALL wish it wasn’t so. no amount of blame makes that any more of a reality. in essence, if you want a life without having to be the victim of these consequences, the onus is on you to do your best to limit yourself in such ways as to protect yourself. for me it meant dishing our over a thousand dollars for the chance (not guaranteed) to get British residence in two years (which I didn’t get). for people who don’t want to be raped, it might mean not drinking, not wearing clothes that ARE DESIGNED (and marketed) to provoke sexual responsiveness, not going alone to the residence of someone you don’t trust completely.

        yes, these are limitations. yes, it sucks to have to limit yourself. but, there is NO OTHER option. you cannot place limits on others because you are afraid of their potential to hurt you. that way lies fascism and nasty badness.

        at the same time, hell yes we need to be more supportive of the victims of rape, regardless of whether they protected themselves or not. what we need is to eschew blame altogether, and have a serious conversation that is focused not around blame at all, but around vulnerabilities, and how we can each take personal responsibility to help create a world with less rape. as a man, my focus would be on reforming our prison system (where the bulk of rapes in the US occur) because I usually want to work with that which is most easily solved first.

        so yes, DON’T blame victims, for any reason, ever. DO, however, take personally responsibility for not becoming a victim. I believe these two principles (which are in NO way opposed) are the foundation for a conversation and way of thinking that will mean the end of rape culture. one without the other, however, will accomplish nothing.

        • Well, mt1980 says it so much better than anyone else ever could. Except that what he is saying is “I’m a complete prat”.

          “I’m not blaming victims just saying that you must take precautions”. So what if they don’t take precautions? What then? You’ve said they need to, so by logical extension, if they don’t, then they are to blame in your eyes.

          You probably don’t realise how often we’ve heard that line. It is nothing new. It just repeats the same old line of victim blaming. Just because you don’t realise it, it doesn’t make it any less true.

          You ARE saying exactly what sparked Slutwalk. “If only you didn’t dress like that…” It is highly offensive to most people. Including men. Because you are saying we are so weak and pathetic, seeing a bit of skin makes us go all out of control. But mostly, you are saying that a problem that men have needs to be addressed by women.

          Your comment about legislation is irrelevant. And facile. Because it ignores culture. A whole system of societal attitudes that drive behaviour. The whole fucking point of this article. The control comes from attitudes that are expressed throughout this thread. That women need to change their behaviour. That IS curtailing their freedom.

          • if they don’t take precautions, they are at a higher risk of being raped. period. nothing more. anything more than that is you inserting blame because you can’t imagine a world where there is no blame. that’s not my business

            I never said, ‘if you didn’t dress like that…’

            you said that. I said, no matter how you dress, you might get raped. it sucks, but I can promise you that I won’t be the one who rapes you. if you do wear that dress, and then get shitfaced, then go home with a stranger, however, your risk of getting raped increased. period. no blame. just reality.

            everyone needs to change their behavior. men and women. the idea that only men need to change is stupid. obviously, our society is driven not by men who dictate everything and passive women who accomplish nothing. our culture is dictated, at least in the US, by a dance between men and women, and in a dance, to change, both partners must do something differently. I don’t rape anyone, and if I hear someone make derogatory comments about women, I tell them that it’s offensive. to call me a prat because you don’t want to embrace personal responsibility is not my problem, and I’ve seen enough of the way you argue to know that you’re completely uninterested in dialogue, but would rather force your perspective on others, regardless of its merits…kind of like mind rape. well, your concepts don’t work in my brain. they conflict with all evidence of reality I have, which deals productive outcomes being the effect of each person using informed will. the idea that one gender should take responsibility for the totality of ANYTHING is absurd to me. I take responsibility for my part of the rape equation, and others will have to do their own work.

            if you’d stop reading blame into my statements, then you could drop your antagonistic mode of dialogue, and you’d encounter less resistance to your ideas.

          • as for legislation, the poster I replied to stated that men were suggesting that women ‘should have’ their freedoms limited…which is usually done through either discipline (self-limiting, largely thought to be a good things), or legislation, hence that opener

            btw…if it gives me more cred, I was sexually abused by a girl at a young age. not that that should have any bearing on the truth or falsity of my statements. and if does, in your mind, then you should be aware that that indicates that you are thinking emotionally about this subject, and hence are probably not fit to have a cogent dialogue on the subject.

          • so, if the idea that one group needs to change their behavior constitutes a curtailing of freedom, then you are essentially proposing that men have the freedom curtailed instead of women.

            meanwhile, I’m proposing that everyone accepts and understands that they live in a dangerous world, and curtails their own freedom in accordance with the degree of safety and stability that they desire. no blame. just taking personal responsibility.

            if a woman goes to a frat party, gets shitfaced and raped by a dozen men, I will still respect her, hold her hand, let her cry on my shoulder, and not blame her. I will still, however, advise her not to the same thing again. if she interprets that as blame, then I’m at a loss. to me blame is not simply the application of responsibility, but the simultaneous judgment that you SHOULD have done better, and you are WRONG. since I don’t believe in those things, I don’t blame anyone for anything. I just see lots of stupid, damaged people creating karma for themselves and others. I cry at the total suffering of this world as a result of human division and insatiability. what more would you suggest I SHOULD do, as you sit there and judge me, and blame me.

          • btw…please don’t use the phrase ‘in your eyes’, since you’ve shown through your interpretation of my words your absolute incapability of seeing through my eyes. putting words in my mouth, and implying that you know the implications of my views is a form of arrogance which is absolutely unnecessary. to assume that your starting assumptions must always be taken into account in every other argument is ridiculous. to assume that we’re even using words the same way is a bit far-fetched. rather than assume that we’re using words differently, or in fact, have radically different ways of constructing reality, you’ve jumped to me being a prat. its not useful, doesn’t promote dialogue, and makes you (a rather intelligent individual based upon your words and ideas) LOOK like prat.

            in rhetoric we call it an ‘ad hominem’ and its generally frowned upon by anyone of reasonable intellectual integrity. so, I don’t think you’re a prat. I just think you can’t imagine a way of looking at rape without blaming someone, which tells me only that you haven’t investigated any of the many compassion teachings, nor have you necessarily investigated your own heart of darkness, but I could be wrong there. often, shortly after one first investigates their own darkness, there is a rebellion phase, where all darkness must be cast out, and exposed to righteous judgment. it can take years before one realizes that the judge is of that same darkness, and that the darkness does not go anywhere, and cannot be vanquished. it can only be understood and managed. so, crusade brother. I hope only that you remember these words when, after your long crusade, the same darkness remains. you cannot manage something that you push away. hence the expression, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

          • btw…when you use the word ‘logically’…do you even know what that means? have you studied logic? I have. logic is the means of arriving at a conclusion from a set of premises. I gave a set of premises which led to a conclusion (which you never understood). meanwhile, you, possessing an unobserved premise of your own that you insert into every conversation about rape (that responsibility=blame) were led to a different conclusion, which you then decided was my conclusion

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blame

            note..moral responsibility. I never said it was a moral responsibility. I don’t believe in moral responsibility…not in the way the concept of blame requires. I was talking about functional responsibility.

            http://blogs.gordon.edu/dlgvalues/pragmatics-and-responsibility/

            what you are talking about is collective responsibility

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

            in this case, applied only to men

            the difference between our perspectives is that mine is an argument from pragmatism, and yours is an argument from moralism, and idealism. as such, without dropping your added premises, you will not actually be able to understand the argument as I’m framing it. likely this is because you are in a space where morality is very important. I don’t need morality anymore, however, since I’ve already had an experience of profound connection to humanity. morality, at this point, for me, is a confining and limited perspective which has no function at all. I don’t do nasty things to people not because it is immoral, but because I have no desire to do so, being that I feel directly the effects of my actions, and thus, harming others, I harm myself. even the less kind words I’ve written on this page, to you, have cut me. in that way, I determine truth by that which causes me suffering or not. the idea that each person attempt to navigate the dangerous world through informed, and cautious action, is true. it doesn’t need a blame component. leave the very concept at the door. just look at the statement without adding the idea that someone must be morally culpable. try it, then lets talk.

          • What @mt is saying is this: if a woman drinks at all, ever, it’s her fault. If she is out in public wearing something more revealing than a burqa, it’s her fault. If she has to walk home at night because she works at a job that gets out after dark, it’s her fault.

            And since it’s her fault, there is no need to have new laws to decide whether a rape is a crime or “her fault” for not taking “proper precautions”. The authorities can just pat her on the butt and send her home without opening an investigation. Like @mt, they know a woman who walks home from her job at night was asking for it. The guy couldn’t help himself. Men can’t help themselves.

            Makes me wonder if the men who, like @mt, are blaming women in comment threads like this, are in fact the ones who have experienced such loss of control in the past that they feel the need to defend not innocent men, but themselves.

          • @Angela
            What you are saying is this: “I have failed to understand mt”.

            If you properly comprehend the words he has written, you will find he is saying nothing of the sort. ‘Fault’ is synonymous with ‘blame’, a concept that he clearly distances himself from, as it is unhelpful, unproductive, and unrepresentative of the issues at hand.

            ‘I wonder’ why you are so desperate to perpetuate this culture of blame. ‘I wonder’ whether it is a sense of entitlement that leads you to be so upset by his words. ‘I wonder’ why you find it necessary to disparage any who disagree with you as rapists. This lends NOTHING to the legitimacy of your position.

            You are using an inexcusable ad hominem, particularly given that the fallacy of such an argument was explained in the post above yours. Whether he is a rapist or not is actually totally irrelevant to the strength of his arguments. The gender, age, sexual/rape history, preference for cola, and importantly the FEELINGS of everyone involved are in no way relevant to the discussion taking place.

          • @mt1980 – Well said, across the board. There is no blame involved in stating that there are precautions a woman can take to avoid being raped – it’s just stating simple fact. If you don’t take those precautions and you get raped, yes, there are things you could have done that -might- have prevented the rape, but on the other hand that rape might also have happened regardless of what precautions you might have taken. Bottom line, it’s a shitty situation, but it’s not your fault. Using the words “fault” and “blame” in these situations is pointless anyway – it just makes all parties involved foam at the mouth.

            It’s as I stated in response to another post higher up – the world has always been a dangerous place, until the human race collectively pulls its head out of its ass the world will remain a dangerous place, and it certainly isn’t just rape that one must be concerned about. There’s no blame involved in expecting each individual to accept responsibility for their own safety – it’s just a fact of life. It’s how real freedom works. If you don’t watch your back, sooner or later an opportunist is going to run a sword through it. A bottle of pepper spray will fit in your purse, your pocket, and even in boot or shoe lips if you have nowhere else you can keep it handy. Hell, you can strap that shit to your thigh with a garter – it takes TEN SECONDS of preparation. It’s also easy to make, and unless you have the piss-poor luck of running into someone with a superhuman tolerance for pain, you only need to get the spray -near- the eyes of an assailant to buy yourself enough time to run like hell and call 911.

            …it is okay to advocate carrying non-lethal protection, right? Everybody understands that I’m not blaming rape victims for not thinking to do so? Nobody is feeling blamed or victimized by the concept? Just in case, allow me to reiterate: You have the inalienable right to arm yourself or not as your moral compass directs you, you have the inalienable right to dress as you please, and you have the inalienable right to not be made to feel shame for your proclivities. These are Natural Laws I am referring to, not specific bills or charters from any given country. Let Daddy and Big Brother tell you what they want – you CAN arm yourself, and you CAN take control of your destiny. Once again, I am not accusing rape victims of anything here. I’m just trying to inspire fellow women to take a bit more control over their lives.

            What puzzles me is why the suggestion of precautionary measures is seemingly so appalling to so many people in the first place. You need to understand where these (what I assume to be) well-intentioned suggestions are coming from. The people who make them are those who have studied profiles of dangerous individuals and understand how the mind of a rapist works.

            One would think it goes without saying, but there is something broken in the minds of rapists – it might be because of abuse they suffered, it might be something as unfortunate as a genetically inherited chemical imbalance in their brains. For whatever reason, these people have no sense of empathy or compassion. They are predators, and just like a cougar or a pack of wolves, they are going to single out the most vulnerable individual they can find, stalk that individual until an opportune moment presents itself, and then they are going to strike.

            The good news for all the girls complaining about the possibility of changing their attire is this: looking vulnerable has nothing to do with the way you dress. When walking alone, always move quickly and confidently with your head held high. Keep your eyes peeled and always listen to your surroundings. These are not precautionary measures that only women need to take – men need to do the same damned thing when they have to walk somewhere by themselves at night. It’s called COMMON SENSE.

            I will concede the bit about changing your career for fear of being raped or assaulted is going overboard, but aside from that, none of the suggestions put forth strike me as being particularly offensive. People springing to the DEFENSIVE and placing blame on men for allowing rape to continue is in no way helpful. I would even go so far as to call it counterproductive. It comes off to me like a bratty teenager throwing a tantrum because the era of allowance money is over, and the era of “forced labor” at a crappy part time job has just begun.

            “WHAT?! You mean I have to accept ownership of my personal safety? And I have to worry about it all the time, all by myself?”

            I know, it’s a bummer. But that’s what they call Life.

          • @LythrumSalicaria
            Thank you for putting forward this great distinction between taking precautions and victim-blaming.

            I, like most people, do not carry mace, but it’s not out of indignation (incidentally I just found out that ‘indignance’ is questionably a word). It’s probably out of a combination of laziness and an avoidance-based way of thinking. However, I think to do so is (a) completely fine, and (b) going above and beyond. Good on anyone who does carry mace, and has used it to protect themselves.

            I stay alert when walking alone and try to give an impression of confidence with my posture and gait. I generally lock my car doors when driving. I don’t resent doing these things.

            (On the other hand, I don’t avoid catching a bus to the city wearing a dress and heels if a friend has organised, say, birthday drinks at a bar.)

            What I resent is the attitude (which has been shown to be horrifyingly common in the wake of a recent high-profile case) that rape is a reasonable consequence to expect if you go out and get drunk. And I think it’s very easy to overreact when presented with these attitudes.

          • > You ARE saying exactly what sparked Slutwalk. “If only you didn’t dress like that…” It is highly offensive to most people. Including men.

            Whether or not people are offended has nothing to do with reality.

            > Because you are saying we are so weak and pathetic, seeing a bit of skin makes us go all out of control.

            Most men are not – but the rapists men are. When you dress provocatively in public you can’t exactly choose who get to see it.

            > But mostly, you are saying that a problem that men have needs to be addressed by women.

            Just like you think men are Schrodinger’s rapists because you don’t know how to tell men apart, men don’t know who are the Schrodinger’s rapists hiding among them either! How can they help you address this problem?

            Most men are not rapists – they don’t need you to tell them “don’t rape”. They’ll even protect you if you let them.

            As for the rapists – if you think telling them “don’t rape” a million times will change them – I have a piece of London Bridge to sell you.

            That leaves it, again, back to preventative measures that I’m sure you are aware of.

        • The precautions you mention will not do, you are ignoring the reality of where rape takes place. You will do better to stay away from all the males in your family and never date a male. Don’t go home. These are the precautions that deal with the reality of where more rapes take place. It’s not in a dark alley by a stranger.

          • > You will do better to stay away from all the males in your family and never date a male.

            Sigh – if you want to live apart from all males that’s your prerogative, of course. I won’t try to convince you that most men are not rapists.

            Protecting yourself from date rape is completely doable. Millions of women getting married every year is proof – unless you think they are marrying their rapists?

            Still comes back to the same thing – take care of yourself, do not draw unnecessary attention, keep yourself sober, educate yourself on self defense, etc.

            Really – it can be done. Please be positive.

    • OMG but it’s okay for all women to have to protect themselves all the time because of some males huh. Way to go bright spark, with women like yourself not understanding the point of the post we’re not going to get far in changing things.

      • Whether it’s OK or not is sort of beside the point, but all people have to protect themselves against all other people who may wish to harm them. Anyone who fails to arrange this protection may find themselves in harm’s way.

        • No. Whether it is ok or not is precisely the point. It’s totally pointy.

          So if someone does not do anything to protect themselves, you ARE saying they are to blame. And don’t you DARE bring up the “just common sense” crap. Because that is rape culture at its very core. To say it is common sense to “protect yourself” implies that violent offenders are a foregone conclusion. It means you are accepting them. Declaring them normative.

          You’d kinda thing a person would either get it or get lost by now.

          • I’ve seen a lot of comments stating that many of these women find any “unknown” male to be a possible rapist. Aside from being an absolutely awful thing to assume about possibly innocent men, and very horrible for the woman to have to deal with; doesn’t this mean that for some women they already do assume that violent offenders are a foregone conclusion? If they look at any and all unknown males as a risk?

          • GoodGravey, that position verges on untenable.

            1) Currently, rapists are out there. Murderers are out there. Other violent criminals are out there. By accepting this as fact, I’m not accepting that it’s okay.

            2) If 1) is true, then there are things we can do to minimise risk to ourselves. We wouldn’t need to in an ideal society, but our society is far from. Some situations should be safe, and it’s unreasonable to be on guard in those situations. Some measures are unreasonable, but there’s no point walking a darker, more isolated route just to spite the would-be attackers that shouldn’t be out there.

            3) If a person is attacked, it’s never the victim’s fault. This is not incompatible with 2).

            Say I cross a pedestrian crossing on a green light, and get hit by a car that ran the red. I could have accounted for other people’s failings to reduce the risk to myself, but it wasn’t my fault.

            Everything in life has its default risk level, and we can do things to increase or decrease the risks to us.

            The shocking thing is how some people apply this principle to the crime of rape.

          • Again, I may not have expressed myself clearly. Especially as it was written at midnight.

            What I am saying here is that, people who say “it is just a part of life, and you have to take precautions” are normalising it. And that IS the heart of rape culture. It’s normal, it’s expected, no one but the victim needs to change.

            We’ve seen examples of this happening across history. Where violence and harm against certain groups was normal and expected. We’ve made a lot of inroads in this. And to me at least there is no reason not to expect any further progress.

            The big danger in saying people need to take precautions is it becomes the catch-cry for society, that people should take precautions becomes the solution.

            An example. A friend was burgled recently. The victim support leaflet that came to her said she should keep her windows closed and locked even when she is in the house. I mean WTF?. No. She shouldn’t.

            I get what you’re saying, and I really struggle with this balance. On the one hand, nobody should have to change other than the offenders. This needs to be default line across all types of harmful behaviour (and I am seeing this growing day by day, thankfully). But yes, we all need to take precautions in daily life. I guess we need to put the precaution message in its perspective.

            Because rape-apologists constantly say you shouldn’t have been there, you shouldn’t have been drunk, you shouldn’t have “led him on”. All this in the name of helpful common sense and friendly advice.

            Does this help explain where I am coming from?

          • Someone who says “it is a part of life, and you have to take precautions” may well be normalising it. They may not. Defining a danger that exists in the world, and warning that it may come to effect you, is not the same as tolerating/allowing this danger to continue.

            Violence and harm against anyone should not be normal, but I implore you to expect it. Work to reduce it by all means, but, until we round up ALL the bad people, expect violence and harm to continue.

            Taking precautions is not the solution. It is, however, the best thing you can do to reduce your chance of falling victim.

            If your friend wishes to reduce the chances she will be burgled, YES she absolutely should lock her doors and windows! I mean WTF. As if a burglar will be put off by your indignation. There are people who will take your things if they can. Prevent people from taking your things by locking them the fuck up.

            Ideally, all the burglars would be locked up, rather than all of your burgle-able possessions. But remember that, for the moment, we do not live in utopia.

          • GoodGravey: it is a difficult line to draw. Similar to what you said, it’s when people fall into thinking, “yeah, we’ll just take precautions, that should fix it completely,” that we lose our drive to fix the actual problem. And, as I said, some precautions are unreasonable, like your friend being told to lock her windows while at home.

            I too was posting at midnight.

          • I sure hear that. :-)

            We all need to take care of ourselves (in all sorts of ways), and we need to take charge of our lives, but there is just so much crap that comes with that, and how way too often it gets twisted and used against those who are already marginalised.

            I would have to say there are certain things that are not “precautions”. For me, it is a non-negotiable point that those who are at greatest risk of rape or sexual assault should change how they dress (because that isn’t a factor), or whether they go out alone or in groups.

            I have had so many arguments on this. And I do get really angry when people say things like, with a case of a woman who was attacked returning to her car down a dark alley late one night, “what was she doing there in the first place? That’s just reckless”.

            I’m not sure yet how to strike that balance between *reasonable* safety advice without it sounding like you are blaming the victim if they do not follow it (as certain people here seem to allege).

            For the record, I would like to apologise for my aggression in these threads. It is something I am extremely passionate about, and I do realise it upset some people. I’m still, after all these years, trying to keep things more low key.

            Thank you Andrea for your patience with me.

          • violent offenders are normal. they’ve always been. nature is violent. animals rape each other. cells get raped by viruses. violence is completely normal. sorry if you don’t like that. it’s inherent to the system. violence is literally occurring at the subatomic level ALL the TIME.

            protecting yourself is a choice. make it or don’t. I live in Britain, and I choose to wear warm clothes, because I know there exists COLD. rapists exist, not because of rape culture, but for a variety of other reasons. rape culture is a serious problem, yes. I agree there. but it is not the genesis of rape. rape existed before rape culture, and will exist after rape culture has gone away (unless we find there’s some genetic anomaly, and allow eugenicists in their fascist glory to edit them out of society, but that’s an awfully slippery slope that might not be worth it).

            the whole idea of something being ‘ok’ or ‘not ok’ is a really great talking point, but it means less than nothing when you’re on the ground. rather than focusing on moral arguments, why not lets talk about the nitty gritty of rape. what makes a rapist? undetected and uncounselled childhood rape? why, there’s a chink in the armor…perhaps we can work with that. what makes someone vulnerable to rape (you know…its best to address all sides of a problem)?

            I’m thinking that the people who make these simplistic arguments have never bothered to troubleshoot anything in their life. when something breaks, they just get indignant and expect someone else to solve it. troubleshooting is what is needed here. rape is a problem. lets examine all aspects of it and deal with them systematically. there are three major components of a rape. a rapist. a rape victim. a situation which is suitable for rape. if any one of these is not present, the rape does not occur.

            so, try to identify patterns of behavior which make rape a more likely choice by someone (sociopathic behavior types, people who are deeply enmeshed in rape culture, people who are desensitized to violence and suffering, etc.). try to identify modes of behavior which reduce one’s vulnerability to being raped (being aware of one’s sexual energy, keeping one’s judgment sharp [not drinking is a good start], avoiding conditions which are suitable to rape)

            btw…the word suitable assumes that rapists are looking for particular conditions that THEY find suitable. specifically, privacy. darkness, enclosed spaces, etc. anything which allows them to get away with it. so, a person who wishes to take personal responsibility for not being raped might eschew clothes which are designed and marketed to provoke a sexual response, avoid substances which diminish their ability to judge others’ intentions, and avoid situations where they are alone with someone they do not trust implicitly.

            this will obviously not prevent all rape. rapists may break into your house to rape you (as happens frequently in many war-torn areas), or someone you thought you could trust may prove otherwise.

            it is not possible to anticipate or bypass these forms of rape.

            regardless of how rape occurs, or how well you protected yourself, your friends and family will ideally be supportive. that, however, will also not always be the case. some people have belief systems which, whether as a result of rape culture or patriarchal religion, views these things as being the rape victim’s fault. that sucks. in those situations, the rape victim ideally will have the strength to find people who do want to support her. that will not always be the case. some people are so personally invested in their family and existing social networks that they will be unable to extricate themselves and find healthier connections.

            all of this sucks. there’s nothing any of us can do about it really. we can put up motion-sensors with lights and try to reduce the number of suitable places a rape might happen. we can try to seek out childhood victims of rape and give them counselling, perhaps preventing the creation of a rapist. none of this is guaranteed. you can’t actually get rid of all the dark spaces, nor can you make a child admit to something they don’t want to.

            lets do the rape victims a favor and step generalizing, and be willing to have the whole ugly conversation, and to accept that evil exists and that we have to protect ourselves from it. personally, if I ever have a daughter, she’ll be in martial arts from a young age, and hopefully will be fully capable of beating the crap out of anyone who might think her a victim. plus, martial arts is also good for the body and mind.

        • @GoodGravey 0341
          I have never said the victim is to blame. The perpetrator of a crime is responsible for their actions.

          You live in a world containing people who wish you harm. Only you can protect yourself from them. If “someone does not do anything to protect themselves” they will be vulnerable to harm. VIOLENT OFFENDERS ARE A FOREGONE CONCLUSION. I am not accepting them. They are unacceptable. That does not mean they do not exist. I am accepting their existence, and it is incredibly foolish to deny this. I am not declaring them normative. I am declaring their existence.

          It is not OK that people commit crimes. It is apparent that this does not stop people committing crimes. Hence, beside the point. Criminals exist, please plan your life around this sad fact.

          • No, when you say “they are a foregone conclusion” you are accepting them. That’s what the words mean. You accept the inevitability of the situation.

            That then leads to the view that if you DONT change to protect yourself from a “fact of life” then you are responsible. This is what rape apologists don’t get. If you say “you need to protect yourself”, then if you don’t, you are placing blame on the victim. You. Have. To. Protect. Yourself. Have to.

            When someone does not do what they “have to” they are at fault.

            And yes, I bloody well can say that men need to take responsibility for rape culture, because we are the ones who created it. I know I have played my part in the past. By accepting misogyny. By laughing at inappropriate jokes. There is an entire culture created by men that is central to the entire problem.

            We need to be more aware of our attitudes, the impact of our words. And perhaps most importantly our inaction.

            I’ve already stated what we men can do to change this. By being a better person, by not accepting bad behaviour and attitudes, by accepting our part in all of this, we change the world. And if you are a man (I don’t recall that ever being made clear), then you have participated in rape culture. I can assure you of that.

            Just to make it really clear. When you say “plan your life around it” you are making victims responsible for the actions of the offenders. If you cannot see that, you probably never will.

            With that, I shall bow out of this thread. I do not want to take over, or appear to take over, a feminist thread with an argument between men. I want to thank you all for your tolerance of me in this discussion.

          • Sorry, thought I was done, this is too good to pass up.
            “That’s what the words mean.”

            Well well well. Looks like you have been failing to use words correctly.

            “They are a foregone conclusion.”
            “I accept them.”
            “I accept the inevitability of the situation.”

            I would suggest to you that these 3 sentences can mean very different things, only one of which approaches my views. These:

            “Violent offenders are a foregone conclusion.”
            “I acknowledge the existence of violent offenders.”
            “I recognise the complexity of the situation, and take care not to mince my words in such a way that you can so wildly misinterpret them.”

            are much closer to the truth. They should not display me accepting any inevitability.

            I am still not blaming rape victims for rape. I have never once done so. I have not blamed the victim of any crime for the crime committed against them. It should be obvious that this blame/responsiblity lies with the criminal.

            It seems obvious, too, who is responsible for anyone’s own, direct, personal safety. Said person is. If not then who?! Given your righteous attempts at defending women here, perhaps you would like to step in as personal bodyguard. Let’s see some of your action to reduce rape.

            “we are the ones” “I have played my part” “created by men”
            Sounds to me like projecting your own guilt across your entire gender, but alrighty then. “If…then…I can assure you of-” no you most assuredly cannot! What a bold assumption.

            Just to make it really clear. I did not say that either. Once again I have not blamed anyone for anything that they did not do. I have acknowledged the existence of people less savoury than I. I recognise a need to be wary of these people, and do everything I can to avoid becoming vulnerable to them. However indignant I get about them, they are still there and they still want to take advantage of me.

            Do not presume to thank me for my tolerance. I’m not sure you have attempted to engage with anything here, and there is nothing I tolerate less than willful ignorance. I would guess that your views were pretty well formed before you arrived at this particular blog entry, and that whatever parts of my posts you actually digested served perfectly to reinforce your judgement of what an overbearingly ignorant misogynist pig I am. I hope you feel validated.

        • You are ignoring the fact that a large percentages of rapes occur at home or near home by someone you know.
          By your logic, if we don’t go home, we will end a lot of rapes.

    • Yep, as Sally Strange said: currently, some people suggest that 100% of women restrict themselves to avoid rape (NB: even if women never left home, nearly half of all rapes occur inside the victim’s home… but I digress).

      The very point is that the majority of men are not rapists, and it would therefore be unfair to restrict all men.

      Also, this is an exaggeration to make a point very clear. Yet, you have still missed said point.

  14. This is amazing. Even the comments are amazing. I love that some people were offended enough to share their perspective. I’ve found, when trying to explain rape culture, that often men who pride themselves on being nice guys don’t believe it exists and don’t understand what I’m talking about but EVERY woman who finds out what it means is blown away. Like I was. I thought, “Oh that’s what that is! When I can’t dress the way I want or go where I want when I want just because I was born into the victim gender even though people of the perpetrating gender still get to do whatever they want”. It’s fascinating to imagine a world where the tables are turned. Where we actively prevent rape by taking away the freedoms of potential rapists rather than potential victims.

    “…almost any limitation on men’s freedom is better than the risk that they might sexually assault someone. That’s just common sense.” It really does make more sense than the approach we take now. Anyone who wants to take this post too seriously and cry about accusations and freedom needs to take a hard look at the freedom they take for granted. Freedom women wish they had.

      • right?? I tried so hard to help one of my nice guy friends understand this concept but he was SO defensive and started being pretty unreasonable. I have hope though. A lot of my male friends do get it. There are lots of actual nice guys in this world who are empathetic, thinking individuals and I am grateful for them.

    • The perpetrators you are drawing attention to are ‘male rapists’, NOT ‘the male gender’.

      It’s fascinating that you imagine that all males get to do whatever they want, without hindrance, having been blessed with their gender.

      It’s also fascinating that a battle against rapists has become framed as one of right-thinking-females (plus any “empathetic, thinking” men who you deem excused from the potential crimes of the “perpetrating gender”…), against men. Who are pig-ignorant and evidently incapable of empathy.

          • I believe that Stormatsea was referring to your comment: “It’s fascinating that you imagine that all males get to do whatever they want, without hindrance, having been blessed with their gender.”

            I may be wrong, but by asking how you dress to avoid assault you are being asked to examine that unlike women, in this one field at least, you, as male, “get to do whatever [you] want without hindrance” because you are not female.

          • That’s a pretty specific field to confine me to, given I make no mention of it.

            I’m more concerned by her outrageous sexism in referring to “men” as the “perpetrating gender”. She has made this an issue between all women, who are victims and potential-victims, and all men, who are rapists and potential-rapists. How any of you find this acceptable, or indeed helpful, is beyond me.

        • but i can answer this …
          i only go out dull&hooded, so i’m walking around without attracting attention. there are alot of violent and often drunken people around here, so why should i make them picking up with me about my neon orange boots or other “fancy” accessoirs i might have in my wardrobe? it’s not that other people wouldn’t judge me for wearing those boots, but i havn’t stopped wearing them because people judged me. It’s simply a matter of protecting myself, not social preasure. So where is this different from wearing a mini skirt in public? just a polite question.

          • Nonsense non sequiturs do not a polite question make.

            “Just a” totally incoherent attempt to make uninformed assumptions about my behaviour, neighbourhood, and most bizarrely of all, boots.

            Your point. Kindly fucking make it.

  15. nudity is an option. it’s possible to enjoy yourselves while also being a ninja. guys can just be lured into an acme trap by a naked woman. & then onto a reality show…

  16. Yes, for those of either gender who do not “get it,” being lumped into a group and divorced from your common humanity is precisely what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. Women, as a group, do not leave the house without thinking about how to protect ourselves against leering, comments, unwanted attention, and other invasive behaviors, and that’s on a simple day. A hard day is when a woman has to fend someone off physically. The worst days are those when all your attempts to “be nice” or ignore provocative behaviors, run away, or fight back, end up with you in the hospital or killed.

    Satire aside, there is no practical way, other than education in how to respect each gender, rather than harassing a woman just because you can; because you harass younger, smaller males in similar ways, calling each other names, putting each other down. You smack each other’s asses as though that’s normal human behavior, when it’s crude and invasive, but if you ask a man why he puts up with it, he’ll tell you some version of “it’s nothing; it’s just playing around.” Men are socialised to behave in ways that make it more likely they will “win.” The problem is, most men (yes, even you, the hyper-educated dude who honestly believes he’s separate from the herd and shouldn’t be lumped in to the way every other man on the planet has been socialised to behave and think) bring this “I must win” competitive attitude with him into every situation. This leads to physical aggression for too many; but for the educated, it leads to intellectual aggression, and I would challenge any man alive to prove to me that he knows how to treat a woman. Most interactions I’ve seen begin with “kidding” and “hazing,” the kind you see men do with other men (no matter how innocuous you think it is, it is aggressive, a characteristic I’ve never seen men truly control). The more aggressive educated male, assuming he’s verbally battling an “opponent,” is, at the very least, contemptuous when dealing with women when he cannot win.

    Like it or not, men, as a group, do not handle the entire realm of human relationship very well, and women protect themselves/ourselves in ways a) most men are entirely unaware of and b) in ways no man I’ve known would ever tolerate for a day, let alone a lifetime.

    The relationship between men and women MUST include respect for differences. Men must stop wanting women to be just like them but somehow nicer, and smelling better. Women are not cut from your damned rib. We are asking for something that men do not offer each other, which is common courtesy and respect. Until I see men treat each other with those traits, I will know that nothing will change between the sexes, since men treat each other well first, and then pass the goodies down the table to the minions they consider, in many ways, beneath them.

    • Some of the most prejudicial people I know are self-described feminists. Men fall victim to homicide at four times the rate, are underrepresented on college campuses, and are thanklessly overrepresented in life-risking jobs. That’s not “equal” either…

        • how can you even come up with such a reasoning? “Our society is build on patriachy, so everything is the fault of patriachy/men by default”? taking the easy road, again, don’t we? (the one that leads nowhere)

      • “Overrepresented in life-risking jobs” … Well, gee. I would love to have been infantry when I enlisted. I’m a competitive marksman, and could easily pass the physical and mental requirements. But the decision has been made it would be too likely for a woman to be raped, there.

        • Raped by whom, might I ask?
          Fellow infantrymen, in which case you are upset that your employer knows its employees would rape each other, and has no power or process to prevent it.

          Or foreign combatants, in which case you are upset that your employer has recognised one way in which you are vulnerable, and made a tactical decision to deploy you elsewhere.

          Or mystery option 3, which I have yet to make up?

        • > “Overrepresented in life-risking jobs” … Well, gee. I would love to have been infantry when I enlisted. I’m a competitive marksman, and could easily pass the physical and mental requirements.

          If you are strong enough for the “male” requirement – you will not be raped.

      • “Men fall victim to homicide at four times the rate”

        Mostly due to violence from other men. There is a great disparity between men and women concerning which group commits more violence against any individual. This is a problem for a culture that values tying masculine identity/self-esteem to such traits as violence and aggression as valid ways in which to engage the world above traits such as intellect, negotiation, or creativity. E.g. “I feel good about myself because I am stronger and can beat the other guy to a pulp.” vs. ” I feel good about myself because I’m achieving my goals in life and bettering myself in the process.”

        One could argue that men have a ‘natural’ tendency for violence, but in spite of this, most rational, thinking adults know better than to exercise violence/aggression as their primary solution to problems. This is acknowledged in laws such as those regarding physical assault or homicide.

        “…are underrepresented on college campuses…”

        There was actually an NY Times article about this — greater numbers of women compared to men were pursuing higher education as compared to men. At the same time, if there are more women achieving higher levels of academic success — choosing the elite — in the admissions process than men, it seems a greater percentage of women would of course appear on campuses. A similar phenomenon is occurring with Asian-Americans at higher institutions to the point where universities are considering putting a cap on the percentage of Asian-American students they allow onto their campuses in favor of trying to achieve a diverse and balanced student representation.

        It’s an interesting flip around from say, the 1920s (even as late as the 1950s) when men dominated campuses and women were minorities.

        Point is men have historically been among a majority of the educated elite and have not historically faced those same barriers which barred women, folks of color, or those of low-income. For whatever reason they are underrepresented — fewer men are applying, making the academic cut, unable to make the necessary financial obligations — it does not necessarily mean that obstacles have been systemically instituted to place an added burden on men during the admissions process as is historically the case for minority groups.

        “…are thanklessly overrepresented in life-risking jobs…”

        As with representation on college campuses, it could be the employers are discriminating, perhaps even unfairly, on the basis of gender and ability.

        One life-risking job in which I was a minority and at a clear physical disadvantage is that of longshoring. The potential to be killed by heavy industrial machinery is great if people aren’t aware or paying attention. I left the industry specifically for this reason — because I saw it as dangerous and the risk as greater than the paycheck. There are women who stay and have stayed as long as they’re able to do the physical work required — another factor that weeds out women who might be competent but simply unable to pass the required physical standards that such a job requires.

        And similarly, going through the application process — women were a rarity — less women applied and so fewer women made the cut.

        If you’re going to bitch about specifics, back it up you examples and consider all the angles.

        Shouting ‘Inequality!!!’ as a gut reaction makes you just as bad as the feminist idiots who shout the same gut reaction with no basis in argument, fact, or reality.

      • “Overrepresentation in life-risking jobs”.

        You have got to be kidding, because you can’t be that ignorant. The most dangerous job in the country is one where women are overrepresented and overwhelmingly at risk of violence and death. It is “convenience store clerk”.

      • “Men fall victim to homicide at four times the rate”

        That’s a sad fact. But how many are blamed for their own demise? That’s the whole point of the article, which apparently everyone has forgotten, or so it appears from all the posts.

        The article is a satire about what women have to go through, and have gone through for decades or maybe even centuries. No matter what we do, if we are raped we are blamed for that.

        At murder trials the question of whether the victim is really the one who caused his own death based on what he wore,how drunk he was, or if he was behaving in an inciting way never comes up. In a rape trial that’s the main topic. Defense is constantly degrading the victim and trying to show they asked for it by their behavior rather than direct attention to the rapist. And the rapist is painted as a model to society. This way, the jury decides in favor of the clean cut man rather than that cheap slut who was obviously asking for it.

        Sorry Andy, or anyone else who thinks this is too simplified. To me, this seems to be pretty cut and dried.

        For my entire life (I’m 61 and probably old enough to most or your Mothers or Grandmothers) I have done the cautious things. I go out dressed in non suggestive ways, don’t go where it’s not safe, lock my doors, don’t go out after dark alone. I see single guys at bars dressed suggestively as they down another beer or scotch after dark and on the hunt. They’re not called whores, but the girl next to them, alone and dressed suggestively as she downs her beer or martini, if she gets raped that night she’ll be blamed for it, her whole life history will be dragged thru court in a way that makes her look like a slut, and she’ll be forced to listen to what a model citizen her friend from the bar is. And that is what is wrong.

        Not statistics, not any other crime, no big words or dissertations on all the nuances of what ever else may be wrong with life or our justice system. Just that when we are raped, we are the ones who asked for it, and little Johnny is innocent, how dare we defile him and his family’s name.

    • A woman cannot physically rape a man as the definition of rape (in UK) is the penetration of the vagina, mouth or anus with a penis where the person does not consent and the other person knows that she is not consenting.
      Women can sexually assault men but not rape. I hope this clears this up for some.
      Very few men report sexual assault by a female, this is probably due to the fact that men are usually physically stronger and would be able to stop any unwanted physical attention as rape is generally about power and control and a complete lack of respect for their victim. Hence domestic rape accounts for the majority of reported rapes.

    • you are right. we need to respect each other’s differences. I, for one, would appreciate if women could respect that men have been biologically attuned to visual stimulus as a prime sexual motivator, and please STOP dressing in ways that have been programmed into my brain (via marketing and television) as been sexy. unlike women, who are only at the height of their fertility for a few days a month, I am at the height of my fertility every second of every day. that is a difference that would be nice of you to recognize. when I am aroused, a great deal of blood is directed away from my cognition and digestion, to my reproductive organs. it sucks. it sucks for everyone. we need mutual respect. yes. I know it sucks for most women, and I would love to have an intelligent conversation about how we could make it suck for everyone a little less (we could start by making currency speculation illegal, I think). but, the idea that a woman should be free to wear whatever she wants (as one example) without having to deal with ANY consequences is insane. the consequences that many women deal with are ever more insane.

      no one is free to do what they want without consequences, and our society is full of insane consequences that far exceed sense. going to jail for growing cannabis is an excellent example. grow a plant and you get forcibly implanted into rape/torture hell. get born in the wrong place, and end up forced into a militia at the age of 10. drink the water of a river and die. our society has collectively created a reality in which a great many actions have consequences far more severe than you would think is sensible or warranted.

      could we have this conversation without the concept of blame? because I really feel that the concept of blame itself is muddying the waters here, and creating a divide between people.

      some of us here are trying to talk about something other than blame, and having that confused for blame. the challenge is, when the mind is searching for someone to blame, it cannot comprehend a situation in which all parties are subject to human compassion and hence beyond blame. hence, the people complaining of others blaming the victim, well, sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are misinterpreting people who are trying to have a conversation outside of the context of ‘who is to blame’.

      blame the Big Bang. blame existence, because this whole mess is so interconnected that you’ll never find someone you can shovel it onto. rape is connected to patriarchy, but no more than the computers we are using to chat about it. patriarchy is connected to agriculture, but no more than cities are. do cities cause rape? how are computers a product of rape (of the earth at the least, if not the slaves that make them)? what does it really mean to eschew rape culture, and can that be done side-by-side with rape culture without ending up its victim?

      this issue is so much more complicated than most people want to address. so, for the time being, lets assume that none of us get it. perhaps we each only have a fragment, and it is the sharing of these fragments which gives us to opportunity to ‘get it’ a little bit more than we do.

      • I’m sorry about your blood flow, but I don’t expect anyone else to take responsibility for my thoughts or sex drive.

        Maybe I’m just not good at listening to my body, but I’ve never noticed a cyclical spike in my sex drive — perhaps it’s just not noticeable over the background level, which is set at “SEX PLEASE”. On the other hand, some of my female friends say they they notice a marked change throughout the month. Just trying to point out that it’s not the same for all women, and therefore I suspect it’s not the same for all men.

        Incidentally, I do feel that revealing clothes invite INTEREST (which means OFFERS of phone numbers, dates, sex). This might be an unpopular view around here, and of course not everyone who dresses a certain way for an evening is looking for offers, but consider: if you WERE looking for a sexual partner, going to a bar in revealing clothes is something you might do in the course of that search. So you do need to be prepared to turn down offers (obviously, if someone continues to offer after being rebuffed, it’s harassment, and further actions constitute assault).

        Agree/disagree?

        • women generally experience a much higher occurrence of sex hormones in the body at the time of ovulation. these hormones lead to sexual appetite. this is known and proven, whether or not you’ve noticed it yourself. as far as I know, if you’re at all fertile (within the age range of 13-40’s), you are experiencing this. my wife never noticed it until she started tracking her fertility in the sake of NFP. and, barring dysfunction, all men are fertile all the time, and are under the constant effect of sex hormones, except during times of extreme stress. this does not differ unless there is some kind of chemical or structural abnormality.

          that’s great that you don’t expect anyone to take responsibility for your sex drive. would I be right in saying that you haven’t spent your whole life being subjected to marketing specifically designed to trigger a sexual response in you? I mean, last time I checked, the marketing industry uses sex as its primary mode of selling to men, moreso than to women. do you think that growing up inundated with sexual imagery has no effect on the male ego? anyway, you’d have to read all of my comments to piece together my particular challenges around sexuality (stemming from early abuse by an older girl when I was 5)

          of course that’s why people dress that way…to invite attention. unfortunately, there is no way to determine whose attention you will end up getting. all in all, there are more effective ways of meeting compatible partners for longer term sexual engagements. so, really, this method is primarily used by both and women seeking short-term sexual activity. the reality is that this kind of lifestyle is just dangerous, for women more than men, but for everyone to some extent.

          I fully support anyone’s right to engage in this lifestyle, and I would fully support anyone who was the victim of any kind of assault regardless of their lifestyle choices, yet, I still would advise them not to pursue a lifestyle choice which is inherently more vulnerable to assault than a different choice.

          as for myself, if I were looking for a sexual partner, I wouldn’t go to a bar at all. I’d go to a concert, or an art showing, or a Yoga event, because I don’t drink and I’m not interested in sleeping with people who do. it makes the sheets smell funny.

        • I do know about the female hormonal cycle. Of course I feel different throughout the month, but I figure these different states distract from my sex drive, but don’t diminish it. Maybe it does though, and I just don’t perceive it that way. Half a dozen etc. Point is, not all women spend 23 out of 28 days feeling markedly less enthusiastic about sex.

          “Would I be right in saying that you haven’t spent your whole life being subjected to marketing specifically designed to trigger a sexual response in you?”

          Yes, now that you mention it. I’ve been focussed on my own experience, which is of being subjected to marketing specifically designed to trigger insecurities about not being sexually attractive.

          Women are marketed to with the premise that the product will make us sexually attractive. This is of utmost importance, because the other thing women learn is the importance of always appearing sexually available, while knowing that women don’t enjoy sex for its own sake; rather it’s something we withhold to get our way, or give in exchange for a relationship.

          I’m glad to say that this bullshit rolled off me — I guess because I’m lucky enough to have had the support to know otherwise.

      • Thank you for this. Thank you so much. My wife hasn’t had a laugh like that in a while.

        Oh dear oh dear. What a poor little bunny. Women tempt you with their temptedness. “A great deal of blood…” I believe that’s called being a big dick. Hey, it’s her words not mine.

        Holy crap, I really can’t believe this is serious. You expect women to stop dressing provocatively so that YOU don’t get a hard-on.

        I’ll give you this, you genuinely want to help and change things for the better. And yeah, the whole issue is extremely complicated. But far out, you really need to grow up.

        Still chuckling over the “don’t give me a hard-on” line.

        • is it possible for you to stop being such a condescending prick? I’ve been as respectful as I can be towards you, but you seem absolutely dead-set on making fun of, or disparaging every man’s comments which are not in perfect alignment with your own. just please take a look at yourself. I know I have sexual issues. I’ve aired them here for everyone to see, and I’ve been working through them for years. it doesn’t help that society is perfectly happy to exploit those issues. it doesn’t help that our society has a really messed up relationship with sexuality itself.

          that being said, why don’t you do some introspection and see whether or not you might have some issues as well that could be aired, perhaps about needing to be moral superior. because fayre and I have both tried being extremely reasonable with you, only to get mocked and disparaged. it feels like you are trying to make your form of male participation in this conversation the only allowable one, and that’s really exclusive and isn’t going to lead to productive dialogue…so instead of laughing at other people and the things that bother them (because, presumably they don’t bother you), check yourself. go meditate. look into why you feel the need to be so condescending in all of your conversations with men on this forum. please. self-awareness is prerequisite for being an agent of transformation.

      • Sorry, but I stopped listening to my mother decades ago about how to dress, and you don’t have the right to tell me that simply because you can’t control your hormones.

        I’m not sure why everyone on here is making this so complicated. It’s not.

        Woman goes out to bar dressed provocatively, gets tipsy, goes out to car alone and gets raped. Dude goes to a bar dressed provocatively, gets tipsy, follows her out to her car and rapes her.

        Goes to court, defense drags all kinds of shit about her past, how she dressed, if she ever had consensual sex, how often and what she drank, pretty much convinces the jury she’s just a reckless whore. Defense shows jury what a clean cut, model of society the dude is. No one is allowed to bring up his history (or the three or four other rapes he was accused of but defense got him off).

        Jury lets him go, because he is a good boy and the bitch was asking for it.

        That’s it. No matter what we do, as victims we are guilty of causing our own rape. And that is what is wrong.

        • Here’s the idea that was new to me in the last few months that turned this issue completely on its head:

          ‘If your advice to a woman to avoid rape is to be the most modestly dressed, soberest and first to go home, you may as well add “so the rapist will choose someone else”.’

          From a clear and concise article about the issue:

          http://hoydenabouttown.com/20130325.13205/a-short-post-on-rape-prevention/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HoydenAboutTown+%28Hoyden+About+Town%29

          • ‘Here’s the idea that was new to me in the last few months that turned this issue completely on its head:

            ‘If your advice to a woman to avoid rape is to be the most modestly dressed, soberest and first to go home, you may as well add “so the rapist will choose someone else”.’

            ModestNoMore,

            Don’t get me wrong. I dress very plainly. And I do it for my own safety. I’m not stupid. But no man has the right to insist I change my habit because he can’t control himself. The implication is that his needs are more important than my own, and that is one of the things that got us all here in the first place. So he needs to take responsibility for his actions and control himself in public. I already do my part by dressing sensibly.

            And I guess God help the women who don’t read this blog and get his message. I believe it means it’s open season on them, and it will be all their fault if he rapes one of them.

          • Castlebeck,

            Oh my, you misunderstood my intent with that comment and link. I absolutely agree with you. The goal isn’t to be the one avoiding being a victim, it’s to reduce the crime, predators and paranoia in this issue. I too tend to dress plainly, but the point I took out of that quote was that women who are guarded, modest, and avoid being the victim aren’t _preventing_ rape, they’re just ensuring that someone else is the victim. Which means that personal preventative measures don’t actually work, they just adjust who is targeted. There is still a target.

            Which is why the approach of victim blaming (for clothes, drunkenness, part of town) doesn’t actually help the root of the problem.

            We are 100% agreed that the burden needs to be on predators (sadly, often male) to realize no one owes them sexual contact, regardless of whatever else is going on, and to be punished for violating consent. We all deserve to be seen with humanity and the right to make a decision about physical contact.

          • ModestNoMore,

            You’re right, I missed that. I’ve been reading post on this blog for several months and I guess I’ve got my back up against a wall. So much being said that is so off topic it’s sad. A lot of anger and hostility, and I can feel that myself when I go to reply to a post. So I usually stop myself or there would probably be hell to pay.

            The article isn’t about how to stop rape. It’s about what women have had to go through for ages, turned around onto men to hopefully get them to see what is happening. We, the victims, are being made to feel guilty because we simply want to go out and have a good time, a few drinks, a cute outfit, and most of us are afraid to because we risk being raped. And if we are raped, and if we take it to court, our life history is put out there for the world to see, with emphasis on ANY thing we may have screwed up on for our ENTIRE life, along with how we HAD to be asking for it by the way we dressed and where we went. In the eyes of defense attorneys we are all sleazy sluts that are fair game. The defendant, on the other hand, is protected by law in that his past history can NOT be delved into. He will show up in a suit with a nice haircut and impress everyone. And get off scott free.

            I don’t know of any other crime where the victim is treated as the guilty party.

          • Fully agreed.

            I’m impressed you’ve been handling the craziness of this comment thread for so long. The satire and irony of the article impressed me greatly, but there was a limit to how much of the left field bullshit comments I could absorb…

            A friend of mine posted a link to this article today, and I wish it was more shocking that animal abuse is taken more seriously than rape.

            http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/25/if-only-we-could-talk-about-abusing-women-like-we-do-abusing-cats/

            Thanks for fighting the good fight. Here’s hoping voices of reason will slowly get through all the noise.

          • I think that is because animals can’t speak for themselves, and people become advocates for the innocent, which most animals are.

            As people, we’re expected to be able to speak out for ourselves. I am usually accused of doing that quite frequently in groups, with my doctors, and online. It usually gets my opinion heard, makes my doctors more assertive in my treatments, and pisses off lots of people online.

            I’m also an advocate for animal rights, and justice for abused animals.

            I don’t wear tights or a cape, I’m just a 61 year old fat lady with a wonderful husband and 7 cats, who can’t get out much due to illness, but do what I can online for those things I feel strongly about. This is one of those things.

        • > Sorry, but I stopped listening to my mother decades ago about how to dress, and you don’t have the right to tell me that simply because you can’t control your hormones.

          When people don’t care about you – they won’t tell you anything. Why bother at all?

          > Goes to court, defense drags all kinds of shit about her past, how she dressed, if she ever had consensual sex, how often and what she drank, pretty much convinces the jury she’s just a reckless whore.

          If you want to win the game in life – you need to know how it’s played. If you expect your anger will make the sun rise from West, think again.

          Fact – criminal law requires “beyond reasonable doubt” for committal, and the burden of proof is on the plaintive

          Fact – without hard evidence, “he/she says” is a credibility game – i.e. it’s incentive for them to “drag you through mud” to reduce your credibility

          Fact – you care about your sexual reputation more than he does – you already accused him the worst (being a rapist), so he has nothing to lose.

          It’s obviously a tall order – you are better off investing energy in keeping yourself safe.

          Life sucks, but not knowing how to play it means you will always lose to those who knows how.

  17. I love that! Very intelligent and provocative way to get away from the sexist “it´s the women´s fault” perspective of the discussion! A pity many people do not understand this part…

  18. without making a joke out of this, i always tell my female friends to not go out alone at night and wear to sexy dresses while doing so. Call me stupid, but i give this advice to my male friends, too. Even if you make this topic rape culture again, there are more crimes your beloved should be protected for. And I dont see women as main target for other crimes; like robbery or murder.

    Crime has no gender.

      • So you imply that what a woman is wearing is TOTALLY DISCONNECTED from the amount of male attention, positive or negative, that they will receive?

        Please, please share your data with us.

        • Attention, sure. But rape? Big leap from lewd comments to forcing yourself on someone.

          I guess it might make one a softer target for someone who has decided that they’re going to rape that night, because they think they’re more likely to get away with it “because she was wearing a short skirt”. But I can’t see it REDUCING the incidence of rape.

          • Angela wrote “you say women in jeans are not raped”; I note ‘someone’ does not say this.

            Implicit in Angela’s comment is the idea that “sexy dresses” have no bearing on the incidence of rape. I would suggest that “sexy dresses”, effective as they are at arousing male interest, could well contribute to somebody’s decision to rape.

  19. What is so bad about needing to alter your behavior/actions in order to avoid potential danger? I dont go walking in certain areas after dark and accept that it is just how the world is, and not worth the risk.

    There will always be bad people out there…why go out of your way to cross paths with them. No one adks to be a victim but at least avoid becoming one as best you can, sheesh.

    • Well bright spark I guess that means women can’t start or finish work after dark, they can’t walk to or from their car, bus, train or home, hell women can’t even cohabitate with a man because many rapes occur in the home.

      Hell women better not go out in the daylight either because rape isn’t something that only happens at night.

      Why do you feel its better for women to have to make all the life changes/concessions to prevent being raped?

    • The thing is, if a man walks down a dark alley and gets mugged/murdered no one says he asked for it. We might say he’s stupid and should watch where he’s going but no one asks how he was dressed.

      We, women, have to not only watch where we’re going but we have to watch what we wear, how we behave, and aren’t allowed to do certain jobs. All for our protection. We have to do more than not get into bad situations.

      We have to protect ourselves from the implication that we may have wanted it. <— most important to realize.

      Imagine the horror of being attacked in a dark alley only to have your family, friends, police, all of society tell you that you shouldn't have been flashing money and wearing expensive clothes. Then they might not arrest the perpetrator because, since you asked for it, you enjoyed it. You wanted it. Now you're traumatized and SO alone. But if you're raped and want to press charges, you slut, it's another horror parade of testing and trials. All designed to protect a potential rapists innocence.

      Tangent: If anyone can educate me on how much of a problem fake rape allegations are I would appreciate it.

      We're not just trying to avoid being raped. We're trying to avoid watching society turn on us because they thought we deserved it.

      Every time a man thinks someone has gone overboard with the rape culture thing it's out of ignorance and thoughtlessness. Please think about it. It IS worthwhile to make an attempt to empathize with the female half. It might help make articles like these unnecessary.

      • Tangential comment about “how much of a problem are fake rape allegations” — I do not have statistics for you but many innocent black men have been lynched as the result of fake rape allegations.

      • “Imagine the horror of being attacked in a dark alley only to have your family, friends, police, all of society tell you that you shouldn’t have been flashing money and wearing expensive clothes. Then they might not arrest the perpetrator.”

        This is the story of many assaults, sexual or not, without specific gender. They might not arrest the perpetrator. Sadly someone has once again become a victim of crime. Perhaps, had they not made their wealth so obvious to passing ne’er-do-wells, they would have continued about their business unmolested. Who’s to say. I for one tend to flash no money and wear dreadful clothes.

        Let’s suppose, following your report, the authorities are able to identify and apprehend a suspect, “it’s another horror parade of testing and trials. All designed to protect a potential rapists innocence.”

        Or rather, “the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies”. All designed to protect innocent people from potentially fraudulent assertions of guilt.

        • , “the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies”. All designed to protect innocent people from potentially fraudulent assertions of guilt.”

          I understand that. But who protects the rape victim from having their whole life’s history brought up in court in the dirtiest light the defense can find?

          • > I understand that. But who protects the rape victim from having their whole life’s history brought up in court in the dirtiest light the defense can find?

            There are rape shield laws in places (maybe not all) that prevents such information being admissible in court.

            My understanding is that defense is supposed to ask for private hearings on which past information they can bring up, but I don’t know how that works in practice.

            http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-supreme-court/1112456.html

            shows a case where Washington state supreme court rules the admissibility of past history.

            People do want to make it as easy for women as possible. Here’s an anonymous juror’s view on why it’s hard to convict.

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/apr/12/penal.crime

          • Sadly, Matrim, it’s not like that in too many places. But thank you for the information and the links. To know there are procedures out there to help avoid the stigmata of rape gives me hope that they will spread.

      • no one asks the victim of a robbery what they were wearing because, generally, one’s clothes don’t play a role in drawing a mugger’s attention. that being said, if you walk into the ghetto wearing a 10k suit, and you get robbed, hell yes people will call you an idiot. if you walk around at night with hundred dollar bills sticking out of your pocket, it will surprise no one that you have gotten robbed, nor will you get much sympathy. if you walk up to a football hooligan and insult him in front of his friends, no one will be surprised if you get beat up.

        that’s why, if you wear clothes that are intentionally provocative (and some clothes are), and get wasted at a house filled with young privileged men who have been told their whole lives that they can do no wrong and are the destined leaders of the world (you know, like a frat party), no one will be particularly surprised if you receive unwanted sexual attention. that doesn’t make it okay. that doesn’t mean that you’re to blame for being raped.

    • Because I am a very, very female-shaped female, nothing I ever wear will disguise my femaleness and according to rape culture that places me at risk. Because I sometimes work late and do not own a car I have to walk from work to my home… LATE. And also alone. And you know what? For a man that is considered okay. For me it is not, yet we are doing the same damned thing.

      And FYI: when I was stalked/harassed/groped as a child, I WAS A CHILD. I never went out at night. I did everything “right,” according to the “book” the idiots put out. But you know what? It doesn’t matter.

    • So if next time you went to a bar with your friends, had a drink, and had one of your friends walk you to your car in a well lit parking lot and 6 guys decided to beat you for your wallet, it would be your fault right?

      Your wallet was so enticing, they couldn’t be expected to resist. But you could have taken more precautions. You could have had more friends with you, you could have worn grubbier clothing, you could have avoided that area, you could have not taken you wallet out with you.

      Because you didn’t it was your fault you got mugged.

      You should not get help, you should not be able to take them to court, they should not be held responsible in any way.

      That is what your saying right?

      • I can believe that you’ve received this message from someone…but I haven’t seen any of the men here suggest that rapists should not have consequences. none. I’ve seen no one offer up the idea that its the woman’s fault. I’ve seen no one suggest that all rape is preventable through taking precautions. I’ve seen only some men suggesting that women have some, limited control over the variable which CAN lead to rape. that does not imply blame, or fault. you can still get hit by a car while following the rules of the road. it doesn’t make the accident your fault. and yes, the victims of rape, regardless of gender, ideally will have support networks. not all will, however, and there is nothing short of building those networks, that any of us can do about it.

        instead of blaming men, or focusing on blame at all, you can always put time in to help the most at risk people in society…homeless women. these are people who can’t really file charges because the legal system presupposes an address in its bureaucratic machinations, and can’t protect themselves because they sleep outside, and have no support networks at all.

        so, lets cut all of the indignation. it is impossible to converse with someone who is in a space of righteous indignation. men…it’s satire…get over it. women…indignation will not change anything. taking responsibility for WHAT YOU CAN is the best you can do.

        I am a man, and I take responsibility for stopping rape by not raping anyone. I don’t hang out with anyone who is in the rape culture. I don’t work or live in an environment where rape jokes are funny (unless its just a really good joke…in which case, its not rape that’s funny, but the timing and construction of the joke…and really, you can craft a good joke about anything, regardless of what humorless activists might suggest…in fact some of the funniest rape jokes I’ve heard were ones that lampooned rape culture). have I done my part? can I be put into the non-rapist male section of your minds? of course not, because you don’t know if I’m telling the truth or not…and you never will.

        this lack of trust leads directly into a lack of communication (since why would you listen with an open mind to someone you don’t trust), which then breeds miscommunication, the tendency to suggest I mean things I do not (like a women being to blame for being raped), and a general muddying of the waters of this topic, and an end to the possibility of a coalition of conscious, powerful men and women working together to change the conversation on rape.

        do you know who I think is to blame for rape? humanity. the way we’ve organized ourselves. the nature of our systems of punishment and reward. our twisted sexual mores. our convoluted sense of entitlement. it’s also to blame for our economic and ecologic crisis, war, bad television programming, and Justin Beiber (sp?). and each one of us, no matter how we try, participates in it. and as long as we’re looking for someone to blame, we’re not taking personal responsibility for the ways in which we feed the beast of narcissistic, self-entitled, unconscious, compulsive action. rape is particularly nasty form of the human-to-human variety. diamond mining is another form of the ecological/economic aspects. fracking. deep-sea drilling. interest bearing loans. corporate personhood.

        we’re all getting screwed right now, and honestly, blaming each other with gross generalizations, no matter how cathartic, doesn’t do our collective selves any justice nor is it productive of our well-being. until we are able to stop making this a gendered conversation (in which men’s opinion, if different than yours, is wrong), this will remain a gendered issue. neither men nor women ‘get it’. each of us gets half of it.

        few of the women here seem to understand that patriarchy has treated everyone poorly, men and women alike. matriarchy likely wasn’t altogether better. what we need is to change the conversation, so that it is no longer men vs. women, but rather men and women working together to develop an understanding greater than their individual perspectives.

        men keep suggesting that taking personal responsibility is important. maybe it is. maybe we’re not talking about blame. maybe there is truth in the idea that each of us has to protect and care for ourselves. while the idea that government and law should do it for us is popular, it has mostly led to a system in which the populace has become increasingly fat, ignorant, and self-centered. personal responsibility is KEY. I won’t rape you regardless of what you do…but as my sisters, and my daughters, and my friends, I encourage you to steer clear of substances that destroy your judgment unless you are safe in the company of people you trust implicitly. even then, know that you are NOT safe. there is no such thing as safety. it is an illusion grasped for by a mind that cannot come to terms with pain and death. wise people know that all situations are dangerous. all people have darkness. trust in yourself, and stay conscious and aware, and that is all you can do.

  20. What is so bad about needing to wear a blindfold in order to avoid being a rapist? I don’t go walking unblindfolded in certain areas after dark and accept that it is just how the world is, and not worth the risk.

    There will always be women out there…why go out of your way to cross paths with them. No one asks to assault a victim but at least avoid becoming a rapist as best you can, sheesh.

  21. Remember ladies, men rule The Patriarchy for a reason. Women are simply too weak to be any use when compared to a man. Certainly nothing a woman could do could possibly reduce her chances of getting raped. Imagine the silly thought of a woman fighting back. Women would have to have agency to do that.

    Men always want sex, after all. Of course the man politely saying “Hello” to you is just waiting to rape you. It isn’t as if he could be a genuinely nice person. If a man ever denies your sexual advances, make sure to call him gay. If he still won’t sleep with you, go ahead and force him. He wouldn’t get an erection if he didn’t really want it. Hit him if you need to. A woman couldnt possibly hurt a man.

    If you then get pregnant, pick the richest guy you have slept with lately and get the government to force him to supplement an extravagant lifestyle that has little to do with the needs of the child. After all, The Patriarchy hates guys that deny their privilege to pay for other people’s choices.

    Last of all, remember that women are always the angelic victims with no power to do anything and it is always the fault of thosebrutish men.

  22. Remember ladies, men rule The Patriarchy for a reason. Men are simply too invested in rape culture and vengeful gender wars to be any use when trying to stop rape. Certainly nothing a man could do could possibly reduce other men’s chances of getting away with raping. Imagine the silly thought of a man fighting rape culture. Men would have give a shit about someone other than themselves to do that.

    Men always want sex, after all. Of course the man politely saying “Hello” deserves sex from women. It isn’t as if he could be a genuine rapist. If a woman ever denies your sexual advances, make sure to support rape culture as much as possible, that will show those women what they get for not having sex with you. If she still won’t sleep with you, go ahead and force her. She would fight you if she didn’t really want it. Hit her if you need to. A woman couldn’t possibly be raped if she would only fight back.

    If you then get rejected again, call all women gold-diggers and blackmailers and parasites. That will surely convince those women that you are a Nice Guy deserving of sex. After all, The Patriarchy pats guys on the back that deny their privilege.

    Last of all, remember that men are always the angelic victims with no power to stop anyone from raping anything and it is always the fault of those selfish, selfish women.

    • I have, on no occasion, tolerated rape.

      You may not obligate me to actively join your crusade against rapists everywhere. I have bigger fish to fry. Such as feminists with giant bees in their bonnets.

        • “Note to self: Women who say bad things about men are worse than rapists.:

          Note to everyone: This is a Newsvine associated with a blog. Only opinions are actually being posted. “Facts” stated within are subject to interpretations by anyone and everyone.

    • please tell me what you think I could do to stop rape. first, backstory. I don’t hang out with many men who are not yogis, many of whom are completely celibate, or who are in the S&M scene, where there are tight controls on sexual activity (for safety reasons). the rest are usually dancers, artists, and so forth. none of them, that I remember, have ever made a joke about rape in my presence. I’ve had conversations with them about rape, with women present, that went a lot like this one is going.

      a few of these men are so hyper-sensitive to coming on too strong to women that they rarely get dates or sexual contact because women don’t see them as ‘MEN’. these men are depressed at this point, because the lack of sexual contact is extremely dysfunctional for a being which is programmed to be fertile 24/7.

      so…what do you think I should do? should I devote my life to hunting rapists down? because you could do that. thanks to guns, we’re all on the same footing as far as vigilante justice goes. should I try to mix with different men just so I can criticize them when they make rape jokes? I’m sure that would go over well. should I start watching television which is rooted in rape culture, just so I can turn it off indignantly?

      or is what you want simply that I ignore the FACT (whether it should be a fact is irrelevent to whether it is one) that certain behaviors make someone vulnerable to rape, and never mention it again, so that you don’t have to deal with the cognitive dissonance that comes from wanting both freedom and security, despite the two being antithetical.

      yes…freedom always comes with a cost to security and vice-versa. trust me…in a police state where men and women are kept apart, under curfew, etc., there would be no rape. in places where there is no governance, no controls, and where people are absolutely free to pursue survival (that’s usually the level of civilization in these places), there is no security. so, you can limit yourself in order to create limited security (as most everyone does to some extent…paying taxes, wearing clothes in public, etc.), or you can brave the instability of a fringe lifestyle. learning to navigate life is really about learning how to limit your own behaviors in such a way as to produce for yourself the most happiness. its a dance between freedom and control.

      so pick one, and deal with it. let your mind embrace the paradox of duality. let your deep self really understand that while beautiful, life sucks. it’s hard. people die. pain is omnipresent. we’re all getting screwed by banking cartels and multi-billionaire moguls. stop making it about men vs. women, and just accept that you don’t get a perfect world. strive for perfection, sure, but know that it has never happened, and it isn’t likely any time soon.

      what’s hilarious to me is that Patriarchal aspect is all about control, and what women are asking is for more control around the subject of rape. what is needed is to ridicule rape culture, as this article does, and I thought it was funny. in fact….my only mistake was reading the comment section.

      • I too thought this article was fairly intelligent satire, making a clever observation. What I have found distressing is the dangerous attitudes that are being taken away from it. Largely attitudes of blame, entitlement, and hate.

        Though given how strongly this issue is rooted in emotion, it is not too surprising that the debate gets swept up in it too.

  23. Can some of you folks not tell that this is an Onion-style parody piece meant to turn the issue around backwards and present people with an “imagine if” scenario?

    the writer’s intent is to take situations that exist around the world (for women) and turning them around backwards to force people to try to think of them that way.

    “A local coalition of religious leaders … are urging parents not to let their sons go out at night unless they are accompanied by a mother, sister, or trusted female friend.”

    If you turn that around backwards it’s not only “common sense” advice given for women, but actually the law in many parts of the world. For the preservation of women’s safety and “honor”, you know.

  24. Discriminatory feminism. Men fall victim to homicide at four times the rate and are underrepresented in college campuses. But to call that the fault of “men” is something called the “individualistic fallacy”. Let’s all strive for equality, not fighting discrimination / prejudice with more discrimination / prejudice.

    • No, this isn’t discriminatory feminism, this is satire. Take a look at the post above this which explains the nature of the article pretty well. In case you didn’t quite pick it up, it doesn’t actually advocate that men should be blindfolded or stopped from becoming tv presenters! Instead it is turning an existing situation on its head so that we can look at it afresh without being blinded by ingrained prejudices, and see just how ridiculous it would be to, for example, force men to blindfold themselves in public places. Then, perhaps, we could remember that feeling of indignation whenever we see women’s freedoms being restricted by rape culture. Hold onto the feeling of outrage that made you post that comment and put it to better use in the future, when it might actually help to do some good.

      • Indeed, Kate. In case I understated — I definitely agree with the main gist of the article and with much of what you are saying. The ability to voice a sense of indignation for apparent prejudicial remarks should be a right that we all share, though. And sexist remarks often take the guise of satire as well. Meanwhile feminism, contrary to its own mandate, does not seem to have a stopping mechanism that tells its followers when they have stepped too far. Finally, if we pick at it some more and find out just who these “rapists” are, we will likely discover that poor education, unemployment, and the like are important correlates. So it is not only unfair that fewer men than women happen to pursue advanced degrees and more frequently drop out of school, but such pattern’s on men’s – not women’s – side of the gender inequality equation may even exacerbate rates of rape and violence against women as well as overall violence against men. Women deserve to be assiduously defended against such crimes. But it does not help when their biggest fans are regarded prejudicially rather than being cordially invited to the conversation.

        • Actually, your assumption that only poorly educated or poor men are sexual predators is ludicrous on its face and even more untrue if you look deeper.

          Sexual predators come from every walk of life, from the deeply impoverished to the fabulously wealthy, from folks working minimum wage up to the head of the International Monetary Fund and Nobel laureates. Dominique Strauss-Khan was outed when he assaulted the hotel maid, and afterwards a long line of women came out to say, yes, he assaulted and harassed us too. Isaac Asimov had a bad reputation for pinching womens’ butts at cons….only women, meaning it’s gendered, and pinching their butts is sexual. That’s textbook predatory behaviour: repeated pattern after the victims have tried to stop it from happening and he ignored them. Clarence Thomas, not an uneducated man, had Anita Hill among others.

          It is worth mentioning that Jerry Sandusky was neither undereducated nor poor, and yet he raped multiple teenage boys. Nor was Jimmy Savile, the UK childrens’ television producer who groomed and raped children, some as young as 8, over 6 decades. Catholic priests may have been mendicants by choice, but frequently well-educated with at least a bachelors in theology, have been abusing and raping children and teenagers for years.

          If you want a downright terrifying read on an institution that contributed to the rape, sexual harassment and debasement of many, many, many people, including adult women, teenage girls, and teenage boys, then read this from the Chicago Magazine: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2013/Let-Us-Prey-Big-Trouble-at-First-Baptist-Church/index.php?cparticle=1&siarticle=0#artanc

          The lead pastor of that church pleaded guilty last year to taking a 16-year-old girl across state lines for sex. This person was an immensely powerful man, who ran a megachurch of some 10,000 people.

          I could go on and on and on with a list of powerful, wealthy, well-educated, or at least comfortably well-off men who are sexual predators. All that was off the top of my head with some documentation help from google.

          The thing is, when you make an assertion like that, you are NOT HELPING. Predators come from all walks of life. Predatorism are not some special condition that only affects the underprivileged. Making that assumption is a kind of dismissal, of the sort that says, well, only these BAD kinds of people do that, so GOOD people like us (wealthy/comfortable, or well-educated) don’t need to expend extra effort into helping the situation get better.

          Source about Asimov: http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/09/09/we-dont-do-that-anymore/
          Source on the Catholics:
          http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/31/13583763-ny-priest-apologizes-for-saying-child-is-often-seducer-in-sex-abuse-cases?lite

          • Actually, you know what you are right, in that checking just now I could NOT find any ties between socioeconomic status and the perpetration of sexual assault. That may be due to the lack of data, however. Apparently in population-wide studies of sexual assault it is difficult to collect information about socioeconomic status. You do quote anecdotes, however, rather than overall rates that cover pretty much everyone and that tell us more about who these “rapists” are, aside from being just “men”. And you end with the conclusion that “everyone” could be a perpetrator. Thus my original argument stands. This article helps perpetuate discriminatory attitudes about men and/or the attitude that women are the only underprivileged social group between the two. Insidious in this discussion is the individualistic fallacy. Namely, the logical error that facts about individuals (e.g., masculinity) allow us to make broad, sweeping claims about everyone. I wish discriminatory feminism would give way, and give way soon, to its more egalitarian cousin that aims to establish EQUAL rights and that is not seduced by stereotypical thinking about men.

    • So it is not “men’s” fault they are more murdered or are underrepresented on collage campuses. But it is “womens” fault they are raped?

    • Take some responsibility.

      Men are underrepresented on college campuses because they have decided not to compete with women on an equal academic level. Overwhelmingly in high schools they are working less and skating by, but then can’t get into the college of their choice.

      Personally I think this is a biological instinct. Men have always competed with men, and it is less appealing to compete against women, especially if winning is not guaranteed.

      Their parents are assuming that at some time before it is too late they will suddenly get the motivation they need to pull out the win. But they don’t.

      I think it’s a cultural issue that needs to be addressed, but I doubt it will be.

  25. This is a joke right? Limit men’s freedom? This is disgusting. Yes rape is horrible but so is taking a way some one else’s rights.

    • Yes, exactly, it’s disgusting to take away someone else’s rights. It’s disgusting the way women’s everyday rights and freedoms are taken away by the ever present threat of rape and blame. That’s what is disgusting, not the completely hypothetical situation described in this article.

      • Agree that is disgusting too. But it is also disgusting that woman generalize all men like this. We aren’t all a bunch of a**holes. I would NEVER do anything to hurt a woman, I would rather die. But it does annoy me when the gender that I am a part are all generalized as monsters when in truth not all of us are like that.

        • THAT’S THE POINT. 95-97% of men are not rapists, therefore it would be absurd to take away their rights to punish the few percent who are. Similarly, it is unfair for women to be told to restrict their dress and movements more than men do. THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE. Yes, it is a joke, learn humour.

        • Women are not generalising that all men are rapists. You’re quick to defend your actions as being innocent but you want to ignore or you can’t comprehend that women are judged by their actions if they are raped.

          yes thats right we are judged and found to be at fault, that it is our fault for being there, wearing that, whatever, somehow we are to blame, even if we were just innocently minding our own business and were covered from neck to bloody knee.

          • I’m not ignoring or denying that some people blame women if they are raped. I don’t. personally, I don’t blame anyone. all I see in these situations is damaged people damaging others. the whole thing makes me sad.

            regarding the way we speak. rather than say ‘we are judged’, which is linguistically vague and gives no limits to the unnamed judge, why not say, ‘some people judge us’. when you leave it in the passive voice, you imply that its a potentially universal condition, where, in reality, where I’m from, in the subculture I grew up in, women are rarely blamed, and humanism is pretty much the standard.

            so, once you state that ‘some people judge us’, then we can have a conversation about those people and their motivations, and their fears, and their internal challenges which might cause this distorted perception of events. chances are that it is cultural. I don’t mean rape culture. I mean ethnic, religious, class, economic culture. you cannot expect men who do not participate or belong to those cultures to have any appreciable effect on changing them. cultures tend to respond violently when external influences come into to forcibly change them. this is why the US foreign policy is so completely stupid. so…can we change the conversation to something that is not antagonistic to either gender in abstract, and which focuses on the actuality of rape, rather than the perceived motivations and geneses of rapists. because there’s a lot of men like me who want to help, but don’t see what they can do beyond not raping anyone and reminding women to take whatever personal precautions they can…the same way I do to avoid being beat up.

  26. My issue with this piece is that the situation it describes already applies (to a much-reduced extent). If I pass a woman while walking alone in an isolated place, I feel uncomfortable and a bit guilty, even though I would never do something intentionally to hurt someone, because she does not know that and may be feeling scared or on her guard.

    Similarly, I would love to nostalgically go back and visit the old schools and parks where I grew up, but I am not comfortable doing that without company (preferably female), because otherwise people might perceive me as a threat.

    Sure, these aren’t as bad as being in physical danger, but they still matter and impact my quality of life. It seems like this article is saying to me, “yeah, you should feel bad and not go to those places,” rather than “let’s stop the small minority of people who actually do horrible things, so that everyone could be better off.”

    • Thank you for sharing this perspective. That’s very interesting and heartwarming to know some men out there are so thoughtful. I hate to think of anyone losing their freedom and I don’t feel any kind of pleasure knowing that men should suffer any similar social injustice, no matter how small.

      Of course we want to stop the small minority of people who commit these crimes and no one wants innocent men to feel bad for being men. Not really.

      There’s a lot of anger here. A lot of women never realized how thoroughly their lives were controlled by a fear of rape and a fear of being portrayed as ‘wanting it’. I’m in my early thirties and only realized how pervasive it was within the last year. I think what we’re seeing sometimes, when it comes to rape culture, is lashing out from women like myself who are becoming newly aware of a lifetime of accepting a subtle yet not so subtle oppression. Once we become aware it seems all too obvious and it’s hard for us to imagine someone not understanding it. Not that I’m saying you don’t understand but part of why things like this get written is to bash over the head people who seem to refuse to see what’s in front of their face.

      My hope is that truly empathetic men like you won’t take it personally. We don’t really see you all as animals but, yes, we do see strange men as threatening, even if we don’t always register it consciously, so your efforts and awareness are very much appreciated. It makes me feel like men and women really can work as a team in society to help make each others lives better, not worse.

    • Thanks for sharing, Jonathan. I have no leads on how to avoid the generalisation that you describe.

      Sometimes I’ve been walking after dark, and a man walking behind me has crossed the road, although he didn’t need to — I assume this was just to make it clear that he wasn’t following me. I want to thank those guys for being thoughtful enough to put my feeling of safety ahead of their indignance at being perceived as violent (which, in the process, marks them as the opposite).

      • Yeah, as long as crimes exist, there probably is no solution to people feeling threatened or worried about being a victim. I have the same sort of feelings if I am walking alone and encounter a group of rowdy teenagers. Most people are harmless and friendly, but how can you be sure?

        Thanks for pointing out the behaviors of men who make an effort to avoid the appearance of threat. It doesn’t solve the underlying problem, but being able to take a specific constructive action goes a long way towards reducing frustration and being able to address the issue positively.

  27. Fantastic article! Interesting how the merest hint of a restriction of men’s freedoms in a thoroughly satirical article is enough to get so many men up in arms, and yet women are expected to accept these very real restrictions every day of their lives and are branded man-hating feminists if they so much as point it out. Something clearly has to change.

    • I don’t expect anything of the sort. some people expect women to put up with it, but it is not a universal condition. I expect women to be as upset by the restriction of their freedoms as a result of human stupidity and cruelty as much as I am. human stupidity and cruelty makes my life pretty unbearable at times. just living in the same country as my life entails either huge payments to one or another government (assuming you can meet the primary conditions), or the willingness to live illegally without access to benefits such as dental, medical care, employment. all because humans are too stupid to see that we all live on the same planet. its a cause of constant stress for me and my wife.

      so, I can understand how, even if you’ve not ever been raped, the idea that this oppressive force can suddenly tear your life apart, against your will, at its discretion, without your say, is upsetting.

      something does have to change. we have to stop generalizing…about anything. we need to look at all situations individually. we need to look at the actors individually. we have to stop generalizing about men, women, rape culture, what we’re entitled to, what justice is. we need to be willing, as individuals, to look at the individual facts and cases so that they become real to us. if you want to understand rape, you can’t just get to know the victim. you also have to get to know the rapist. if you can’t have compassion for EVERYONE involved, nothing will change. compassion does not mean justification. it does not mean reward. it does mean an absence of consequence, but only a willingness to enter the shoes of that person. women are crying out for compassion from men, and men from women. we’re both crying out so loud for compassion that no one can hear the others’ cries.

  28. Pingback: What If We Responded to Sexual Assault by Limiting Men’s Freedom Like We Limit Women’s? « Ang's Web-log

  29. He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Think about it guys, are you a rape apologist or do you actively protest against the restrictions women have to live by because of rapists?

    • Are you a mine collapse apologist? Are you a predator drone strike apologist? Are you a financial crisis apologist? Or do you actively protest against China, the US military and the global financial system?

      Many things are wrong in the world. But notice that I am not trying to make you feel guilty for your lack of engagement with these issues. Your insinuation that I am responsible for the ongoing problem of people raping other people is totally unacceptable.

    • Oh of course! To borrow the salient words of George W Bush, “Your’e either with us or against us”. What utter nonsense!

  30. I find it surprising that some people cannot recognize that there is a legitimate concern that misandry is present in this satire. Yes, there is misogyny in our culture. Yes, rape culture is awful, and we ought to fight against it. No, these things do not justify the collective denigration and chastisement of men. There are many men (and women) who need to be convinced of what is happening and what must be done and contrary to popular belief, you cannot shame and bully people into supporting your cause.

      • To be fair, Stormatsea, Devros is only missing the point completely.

        Y’know, that is pretty much the funniest/saddest thing about all of this. How most of the men commenting are so incensed at being ridiculed, generalised, how the satire calls for all men to change.

        And still, they are incapable of taking that next logical leap. Of thinking that perhaps it is to highlight how others live. That for one brief moment they get the smallest taste of what others face every moment of their lives.

        It’s almost sad that they cannot make that connection with another human being. It’s sad how many of them believe it is all about them.

        • maybe its because many of the men here aren’t people who believe the same about women. maybe its because the men commenting here are the men who don’t ridicule and demand that women change. have you considered that? or do you think that all men ridicule women and expect them to change?

          • I would believe that except that most of the men being referred to here have made a point of trying to silence anyone who points out that this is how women live. What motive could they have to do that if they don’t hope to benefit from the continuing of that lifestyle. Because the truth is clear that this article is NOT about men, it’s NOT about a genuine hope that men should live this way. It points out the absurdity that the general population does treat women this way. There is no pure motive for fighting such an obvious fact.

    • Interesting. So rape culture is horrible, and someone should do something about it, just as long as that doesn’t involve women speaking up about the realities of their lives.

      • That seems to be what these guys want, yeah. Entitled men making everything about themselves? No, that’s certainly not a major cause of rape culture.

  31. I know this is supposed to be satire, but, apart from the blindfold idea (which would make it impossible for men to walk around), I don’t really see why these should not be realistic ideas. Your satire does not go nearly far enough, I think.

  32. Rather than complaining about how nice a guy you are and how unfair it is that women don’t trust you, how about working up a little anger for those 6% of men that are rapists? Why not brainstorm ways that men could stop enabling those rapists? Like, not putting up with men that say they are entitled to sex, like not allowing men to get away with taking advantage of women that are drunk, isolated, or scared? Not putting up with men blaming anyone but rapists for rapists’ actions? Men could play a huge role in reducing rape by not allowing rapists to be comfortable, by letting predators know it’s not OK and you are keeping an eye on them. It’s the rapists you should be angry at, not the women who have to live in the rapists’ world. As long as the “good” men do nothing but complain about WOMEN nothing is going to change and it’s perfectly sensible for women to not trust you and to assume that all men support rape culture. And if you say you won’t join the fight because women are not being nice enough to you, you are part of the problem.

    • i love how the % of rapists rise by every comment made. Lets see, 6%, thats if u say 7100000000 people on earth, 50% male, thats “only” … 213.000.000 rapists world wide. seems legit.

      also i like that a woman can descripe how men courage other men to rape, while they are not around … or that it’s excepted by the majority of men in any way and rapists think it is. Let’s watch some news in India and come to the conclusion its everywhere the same, especially in my country.

      Also let’s think that every men is one of the 3 drunk douchebags in the bus listening to loud music with their smartphones while insulting passing women. It’s common sense that those represent every cis man on earth and everyone is fine with that. why not. because without those lines of thinking “rape culture” wouldn’t exist, it would simply be the crime “rape” and women fearing every men around to be a potential rapist, while in fact, there are only normal once plus a low % of douchebags making them insecure in public, plus another, way lower % of real rapists/criminals.

      sure you can think otherwise, and start debates about “doesn’t rape begin when some guy even look at me – probably thinking about sex”, but if you do, i got raped alot in my life (blame it on my ego).

      I don’t say you are wrong with your movement, but as someone else here mentioned before, you can’t shame and bully people into supporting your cause. If it’s not possible to talk on the same level with men and women, because “men are privileged and can’t understand”, while “women are the vicims and always oppressed”, no changes will be made. And I can’t see why to blame “the men” for this again, while nobody “from the other site” is willing to communicate at all. And with communicate, I don’t mean generalization and subtile insultings; and that is, what i read alot when it comes to “rape culture”. You push men out of the discussion by doing this, and seriously – that’s your biggest problem right now.

      Have a nice day.

    • not saying men shouldn’t do their part…but

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulabi_gang

      women are strong, capable, amazing human beings who are more than capable of protecting themselves and each other from men. the idea that men who are not rapists must devote their life and energies to preventing rape is a throwback to the days of chivalry. freedom comes with the onus to defend one’s freedom.

      I do the things you say. I don’t put up with anyone suggesting they are entitled to anything. sex. money. freedom. as far as I’m concerned, entitlement is a social disease. everyone gets what they are willing to put the energy out for. the US’s slide into fascism is evidence enough that the populace no longer really cares as a whole about freedom. they want security, and safety, and to be protected, all of which are anti-thetical to taking personal responsibility, which is the cornerstone of freedom.

      I don’t blame anyone for rape. I blame systems. I blame evolution. as far as I can tell, rapists are created through certain factors, most of which are not in their control. I don’t think they are particularly happy people (if they are even aware that they are rapists), unless they have been capable of deceiving themselves that they are not rapists, in which case, a lack of awareness is a critical element. either way, blame is not useful. it doesn’t prevent rape. in reality, it’s generally just used as a way to make someone else suffer. blame, as a response to human suffering, is insane, because it implies that, someone having suffered, now someone else has to suffer. as far as I can tell, this only increases the total amount of human suffering. insane.

      as far as being angry. I’m not angry at rapists anymore than bankers, or deep-sea oil rig workers, or the shareholders for McDonalds. most of the time, I just ignorant, short-sighted, self-interested people who lack the awareness to see that, by causing suffering, they are making the world they must inhabit a less habitable place. this makes more sad than angry MOST of the time. some times I’m right pissed off.

      it’s never right for anyone to assume anything about a person. it’s not wrong either. in fact, the whole paradigm of ‘right and wrong’ is far too limiting for a quantum universe. its reflective of the thinking of an age nearing obsolescence (I hope) in which people were so ignorant as a rule, that they could only be controlled with absolute maxims, being unable themselves to look at individual situations with any kind of nuance.

      the idea that a man is part of the problem because he’s not making preventing rape the primary issue of his life is a false argument. according to that argument, you are part of the problem of sex-slavery, and strip mining, and the rigging of the banking system, the devaluation of currency, the illegal poaching of endangered species.

      unless…are you active in every progressive movement in the world? how do you find the time? you don’t. we all pick our battles, and there A LOT of them. if every ‘good man’ (whatever the heck that means) were to focus exclusively on preventing unwanted sexual advances upon women by men, we’d all be screwed, because while that was going on, you wouldn’t have any men fighting to protect humanity from corporate water privatization. the biosphere would be screwed, because suddenly, the movement to stop the propagation of GMO foods which are destructive to bee colonies would collapse.

      the reality is…rape is a huge issue. climate change is a bigger one, because, if we don’t solve that…everyone is going to die. things that effect 100% of the population take priority over those that affect less than 100% of the population. issues that have critical time limits (i.e. points of no return, after which no amount of energy expended can prevent a negative outcome) take priority over issues that have shown that they pose no distinct threat to the survival of the biosphere.

      in the meantime…women…get together, and beat the living crap out of rapists. kill them even. I won’t mind. if I see a man raping a woman, and I’m in a position to do something without being killed, I’ll beat the crap of them. there…am I ‘good man’ now?

      • So you’re okay with violent criminals as long as they are only raping women? I’m trying to picture how you see rape as no different as someone going to work and doing their job every day, unless in actuality you support rape and are annoyed by women who make it inconvenient.

        • I’m trying to picture how you can so wilfully misconstrue every word he writes, unless in actuality YOU ARE A RAPIST YOU ARE A RAPIST YOU ARE A RAPIST

          That’s actually once more than I’ve caught you calling him a rapist, and still lends no credence to my post. If you say it enough maybe he’ll start to believe you.

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  34. I’m male and not a feminist and I Agree, There are far too many excuses that keep women oppressed anf allow CREEPS and Murders and rapists to prowl free. Not all grown adult males are MEN they are sick & peverse, pathetic excuses for human beings. The fact that women are put to blame to such gross actions makes me ashamed to be a man. Known Law & democracy as a pratice are all for naught if we ever shove blame because a man cannot control his actions, EVER! If i have no money do i have the right to steal? If I covet another’s possesions can I commit murder and claim ownership? NEVER!!! There is never a reason to allow another to cause anguish on anyone because he cannot control himself, or that individual should be locked away or put to the death penalty for being a blight upon known civilization!

    • I salute you sir, but must disagree with something you said.

      You should NEVER EVER EVER be ashamed to be a man. Be PROUD that you are not only a man, but as far as I can tell, a GOOD man. Do not be ashamed of your sex. Be ashamed of those that WOULD do me harm on the account of my sex.

      And I’m not sure a death penalty is just punishment for a rapist. I would say castration would be better, so he can never do it again. After all, most rapists are REPEAT offenders.

      The point that many women are trying to make is this: there are a lot more good guys than there are bad. HOWEVER, even a lot of the good guys focus on the woman’s role in rape rather than the rapist’s. We need the good guys, like yourself, to take our side against the bad guy’s, because there are a lot of guys (and girls, for that matter-unfortunately) that say “Welp, you’re a slut, so you weren’t raped” or “Welp, you shouldn’t have been in place X at time Y” or “How could you say that about him? You’re going to ruin his life you know.” But don’t go so far as to be ashamed of yourself because you happen to share a physical characteristic with the bad guy-that is neither right nor helpful.

      Thank you for taking my side. You have NOTHING to be ashamed of.

      PS-sounds like you ARE a feminist. A feminist is someone that advocates equal rights for both sexes. That, good sir, makes you a feminist, whether you choose to use the term or not. Welcome aboard!

    • Micah, thank you for your post and point of view.

      I have to disagree with something else you said. It’s something more subtle, which probably didn’t register as you typed it: the phrase, “some men can’t control their actions.”

      Please know this isn’t an attack on you, just a response to this quirk in our language. It’s probably a symptom of the way rape has always presented to us: as a crime perpetrated by the few men who are particularly bad at controlling themselves. But this idea requires that men generally want to rape, and that the majority of men (the ones who don’t rape) are continually controlling their desire to do so. This is ultra-demeaning to men!

      It also frames rape as a case of overwhelming sexual desire, when in reality it’s an act of violence or control. I might be getting carried away, but I feel that this perception lets us diminish the seriousness of rape by letting us think it’s an attack on something intangible, like the victim’s sexual nature — not on his or her very being.

      Everyday phrases probably affect our thinking more than we realise. When we condemn rape with the phrase, “some men can’t control their actions,” we’ve assumed the above situation to be true. We need to change the way we take about rape to indicate that the rapist was in full control (or insane, the only exception), and chose to violate another person.

  35. I feel the need to comment on this because I loved the article and its wonderful satire. I do cringe however whenever I see people stating that “only men” perpetrate the crimes as if it were a blanket statement. Before I continue, know this is meant to give one look at the topic and not a cry for sympathy. I’m over it, moved on, and so forth. When I was young my step mother sexually abused me from the age of 7 to the age of 12, and then for 5 years after my dad divorced her sent me birthday cards with the words “Never forget.” [This obviously has made interactions with my fiancee difficult even now at 23, but I am thanks to therapy and her understanding, breaking down my barriers/fears resulting from the exposure.] I remember I mentioned it during sex-ed since I felt that was a comfortable place to bring it up and of course, the “fag” “did you like it” etc. began from my fellow males. I had plenty of girlfriends who I thought, being women, may be more understanding, and I confided in them. They too gave the same kind of response “damn, lucky every guy would want that.” That kind of attitude is just wrong, no person male or female to my knowledge would want unsolicited sex. I’ve also had a best friend who was raped at a party and I was the one who found her after the fact when she didn’t come out of the house for the pick up (Always the designated driver…) and she was ashamed to talk about it. What I noticed was that the girls risked being called sluts and whores, and the guys either told they were lucky (people shrug it off, not serious) or they were weak or a fag. Only some people would show empathy to the victims. And lately I’ve seen a lot of people with the rapes in India stating things that “Men cannot control themselves around women” – obviously we can or we’d be raping everyone on Earth…and it also removes the blame on the criminal. As if it’s “just natural”. It’s a double insult; towards the men of this world who are good, kind, and just of which there are many, and to the women who are victims, which also are unfortunately many.

    I just hope that in our efforts to create equality and bring justice to those who need it, we are not creating divides and blanket stereotypes against one another (ie: all men are pigs / all women are sluts, etc.) I was raped by a woman for several years, but I don’t hate or place condemnations on women because I know it was the action of a single individual, not the collective many. I would hope others would be equally as understanding. That’s all I’ve got at the moment, apologies if I offended anyone, and for the potentially scattered thoughts. Cheers.

    • Thanks for sharing your story. It’s great that you are moving forward.

      Your story also reminds that women are just as liable to victim-blame or not take a report seriously. I’m disgusted in the women who you confided in, and they then downplayed it, or even said you were “lucky”.

      As an aside: Perhaps people are more likely to downplay a sexual crime perpetrated by a member our own sex? Because we do get that indignant feeling (as is well on display in some comments above) and we like to believe there was an extenuating circumstance that pulled the perpetrator into the situation? Just a thought, and not one I’ve gone over.

      • Thanks for the warm reply Andrea. I do think that it’s difficult for us in our own separate demographics to look at ourselves and recognize a problem. I wish that we could just look at all victims as humans, rather than blacks, whites, men, women, christians, muslims, etc. as is so common because it might break down the stereotyping and bias, and people of similar demographics may stop going on the defensive.

        The comment about an “extenuating circumstance” reminds me of an article I read once where a woman in the US caused serious bodily harm to an older man in an argument by damaging his genitals. (He recovered, everything was repaired 100%). I read a lot of female comments saying how it is so crazy what she did that he must have done something to deserve it – blaming the victim and almost making an excuse for the perp. It’s identical to how many people claim the rape victim must have deserved it because they dressed a certain way or were alone, etc.

        What I’ve noticed is that often the gender(or race/religion/nationality) related to the victim goes on the offensive blaming the ‘general’ group of the criminal for having a global view similar to that of the criminal. (Ex: All women are psychotic b*tches who like hurting men) But then the group attached to the criminal often resort to victim blaming in defense. (Ex: Men are pigs and he probably deserved it) Both of those kinds of behaviors are so unfortunately wrong that it makes it difficult to empathize with the situation and actually hold a helpful dialogue.

        • I have a theory (percentages are for illustration only):

          2% of people behave terribly towards other people. Note that most people are heterosexual, and most people will at some point find themselves in romantic (I use the word loosely) relationships.

          Say, then, that 5% of people (not of the terrible-to-others variety) are (or have been) in a relationship with one of the above. Their experience is of someone of the opposite sex being terrible to them.

          Some of these 5%, and some of their friends who hear the stories, generalise and get sucked into the way of thinking: all members of the opposite sex are horrible.

          Now we have a situation where 10 or 20% of people hate the opposite sex, all because 2% of people behave badly in general.

          • Meaningless statistics. I suggest you forward a meaningful point of view on the subject in future.

          • As I said, it was just an idea for discussion, and the numbers were completely made up. I suggest you not be a dick in the future.

          • Mike, in the space of a few hours, you posted five times, each time a few sentences simply disparaging the previous comment. Where’s your meaningful point of view? #feedingtrolls

          • interesting mental experiment. I’d posit that actually 100% of people are prone to behaviors that can be interpreted as cruel, depending on culture and context. the number prone to actual acts of cruelty is indeterminable. a lot people are complicit in the consumption of battery farmed chickens, which is an exercise in mass cruelty, but many of these people might be acting entirely out of ignorance.

            separating willful cruelty from ignorant complicity in cruel acts is a real challenge from an ethics perspective. either way, my vegan friends would include all meat eaters the percentage of people who are cruel, and so, their numbers are a bit higher. another person, such as myself, might choose not to label anyone as cruel, but look at all acts of perceived cruelty as being dysfunctions of behavior rooted in prior trauma. in which case, perhaps 0% of people are cruel.

            the idea, however, that prejudice and conflict is generated through hearsay and generalizations, however, is very apt. experiments have been done in sociology and psychology that suggest this. partially it is rooted in our desire to believe whatever the people we are intimate with tell us. this is the foundation of rape culture, since this principle can allow for the normalization of rape within certain social contexts, such as if the rapists is the alpha male of a close knit group, or someone in a position of authority. it doesn’t help that we are trained from a young age to give more credence based upon certain, potentially irrelevant factors, when weighing evidence. people are more likely to believe a police officer than a homeless woman. in that sense, a police officer could probably very easily get away with raping a homeless woman. this can be simplified as being due to rape culture, but its really more basic than that, and works off of unconscious mammalian psychology.

  36. So the majority of the commentators “get it.” The critics of this piece, all male that I’ve read unless I’ve missed someone, would like to refute it by maintaining the focus on the men.. They do in similar ways. The Men Are Victims, too, version, which generally consists of: “men and boys get raped” though nearly all aren’t willing to claim that it’s by adult women because we know that’s so rare and rather hard to do that’s it’s almost negligable, and the “men get killed more”, because their type of victimhood is just a bit more important. Somehow, they claim, we all seem to forget about the poor male victims in our desire to deal with rape cutlure, which of course focuses on the female victims. And of course, it’s all because of those man-hating, rape paranoid feminists! I can’t imagine how we’re allowed to forget about those poor male victims, quite frankly. Their advocates pop up whenever anyone tries to create a space to discuss rape culture.

    Guess what, apologists? Guess who rapes other men and boys? Guess who kills them? It’s overwhelmingly OTHER MEN. You want to know who the problem is? it’s the repeat rapists who are the majority of the problem. They commit other acts of violence, too, and they don’t wait in alleys for victims. “The vast majority of the offenses are being committed by a relatively small group of men, somewhere between 4% and 8% of the population, who do it again … and again … and again. That just doesn’t square with the notion of innocent mistake. Further, since the repeaters are also responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of the intimate partner violence, child beating and child sexual abuse, the notion that these predators are somehow confused good guys does not square with the data. Most of the raping is done by guys who like to rape, and to abuse, assault and violate. If we could get the one-in-twelve or one-in-25 repeat rapists out of the population (that is a lot of men — perhaps six or twelve million men in the U.S. alone) or find a way to stop them from hurting others, most sexual assault, and a lot of intimate partner violence and child abuse, would go away. Really. ” http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

    That doesn’t let anyone off for dealing with ALL victims of rape or harm, of course, but these misogynist arguments are really a moldy attempt to derail the discussion entirely. “despite the overwhelming evidence of entrenched sexual, physical and ideological oppression of women, the only way feminism can really be fair is if it first identifies and solves all of the ways in which the patriarchy also oppresses men.

    To be more specific, women who agitate for their own liberation are only allowed to do so once they’ve fixed all the things that make men sad, thus making them stronger and even more powerful. http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/how-to-spot-a-misogynist-20120430-1xueh.html

    And finally, the ‘nice guys” who hate being lumped in with all those rapists. Even though the nice guys would never have anything to do with rape, somehow, those few percents manage to rape again and again. And these are men that are considered ‘normal’, btw. College students. Not guys in jail. These are men in your own circle, and what do you do about them?
    “A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

    Rapists do.

    They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

    Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.
    It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.”
    That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades. http://dbzer0.com/blog/feminists-dont-think-all-men-are-rapists-rapists-do

    So if the rape culture apolgists who think women should somehow be doing MORE to prevent rape, or the “nice guy” whose feelings are hurt or outraged doesn’t want to be lumped in with the small percentage of rapists, or the ‘men are victims, too” men could actually get on board and see how they are contributing to the continuation of rape culture, when this small percentage of men are victimizing EVERYONE and largely getting away with it through this kind of collusion, I think we could finally make some headway in exposing and denying these men their safe spaces to rape and abuse and murder. And wouldn’t that make the rest of us, the women and male victims, all breathe a sigh of relief.

    • if you can’t see why your comment is offensive and that it will nobody encourage to support your concern, I’m sorry to tell you it is. Not only that you’re rolling over all male views posted, calling them rubbish or whiny, you also (can i even call it “indirectly”) blame those men for not doing enough and be one of the reasons for rape, so they should join your idea of rape culture and how to fight it. Good job for that.

      in addition, you used sources and i love to read them. But those sources are other bloggers and digital rainbow press, using other sources, which doesn’t exists anymore or arn’t even near scientific in the first place. If you use those as fundament for your argumentation as death swings, choose them more wisely. “6% of Penny Arcade’s target demographic [...]” are you kidding me? How many of those people took those questions seriously in the first place? Do you even know what Penny Arcade is?

      I am sorry, if my answer is offensive, too, but it’s comments like yours making those discussions a mess out of half knowledge, hatred and bitterness. If you want be angry all day, changing nothing, and blaming it on you “opponent” in the end, go on. Nobody will try stoping you, without getting called names like “passive rapist” and other subliminal fun, obviously.

      Greetings.

    • Well I thought you presented a well rounded argument that showed concern for all victims and showed that it is only a small number of mostly men committing crimes against men, women, and children.

    • I live primarily alone with my wife. we move around a lot, mostly within yoga communities. I’ve confronted more than one man in these communities to suggest to them that their behavior was unacceptable. yet, I still don’t subscribe to your way of being.

      how do you handle when your conclusions don’t match up with observable reality?

  37. Pingback: Worth Reading 91: The Psalm of Protection | What You Can Get Away With - Nick Barlow's blog

  38. Pingback: Daily Feminist Cheat Sheet

  39. From A Modest Proposal to this gem, satire is once again being used effectively to spark debate and deliver smart social commentary. Interesting read… :)

  40. I really love the satirical message. I’m a young women and I am regularly assulted, and something really has to be done. I went to the police a few weeks ago to report someone with a car sign and everything, though all they could do was to say: ‘Well sir, don’t ever do that again.’ and that was the end of it.

  41. Black people commit a higher percentage of crimes then whites but something tells me any satire acknowledging that fact would be deemed racist.

  42. It’s supposed to be satirical but I truly believe that until men learn to not rape, EVERY man’s freedoms should indeed be curtailed. It is not until they are ALL limited in their freedoms that they will begin to educate each other that every person has a right to sovereignty over their own body.

    • So…let us battle discrimination and injustice with – wait for it – more discrimination and injustice? That really doesn’t seem like the right thing to do Chilli. Imagine if Martin Luther King had told all the African Americans to combat white supremacy by somehow managing to enslave, beat and belittle all white people on Earth. No one should have their rights removed based on the ignorance of a small few. And men do educate one another that every person has a right to sovereignty over their own body, that kind of enlightened thought is not strictly a female thing. I get what you’re trying to say, but doing it/suggesting it would make you no better than the idiots you’re trying to combat.

      • Alex, this has been pointed out far too many times for people to still not get it.

        In this world where men, white, hetero, cis-gendered men in particular, have such privilege, a satirical commentary on imagining how it would be if the tables were turned is MEANT to make you feel angry. The ideal is that you get to understand what it is like for people who are marginalised. What it is like every moment of every day. At least that is my take on it, and I hope the authors will correct me if I have misunderstood.

        It is like commentary on the GOP attempts to restrict abortion. Imagining if men carried babies, if they were the ones who “got pregnant”. People scoff at that too, and miss the point.

        It all has two functions. 1: Consider if the roles were reversed; and 2: asking “doesn’t it sound ridiculous? Well, that’s our reality”

        In case anyone missed it (and this is just another example of the culture of abuse against women) the term “got pregnant” is in quotes because our language says women are not impregnated by a male, but they are to blame because they get pregnant.

        That kinda leads me to the entire language in MSM regarding rape, the use of scare quotes, the way there is never an offender but it is something that just happens to someone, and even worse the use of “relationship” when they mean rape. But that is a whole other volume of blog posts.

        • @GoodGravey
          Chilli’s post reads “I truly believe that until men learn to not rape, EVERY man’s freedoms should indeed be curtailed.”

          Explain how this, divorced from the satire of the article by the words “It’s supposed to be satirical but”, does not qualify as hate speech.

          If you engage with Alex’s post you will probably find his views tolerable, and that he most likely has ‘got the point’. It is not reasonable for you to insinuate that he is too dull to grasp the truth, and that this is the only reason your views are at odds.

          • Jeez, fayre.

            Why ask me about something someone else said? Address it to them.

            I really do hope you get help with your anger, but given your antagonism, I will not engage with you further. Except to leave you with this:

            Whatever the issue is, if you want something to change, you have to take the responsibility to bring that change about. If you want rapists to stop raping, you cannot simply say “it’s their problem” because it is not. It is incredibly simple. If you want change, then act to bring it about.

            Recognising of course that this has a “to the best of your ability” condition on it. Because many people, victims of crime in particular, have had so much stolen from them that their ability to effect change is compromised.

            Have a nice life, Fayre.

          • Jeez GoodGravey!! Why hold me accountable for other people’s actions through illegitimate gender discrimination?

            I don’t know why you have imagined that I’m angry. I find it much more likely that you are enraged by my daring not to agree with your obviously superior views.

            I want change. Right now the change I’d like includes, among other things, you taking responsibility for the words you have been writing here, and the often antagonistic meaning behind them. Instead of insulting me with the suggestions that I am too angry, wrong, selfish, and all around dull to grasp a point, consider the possibility that I am at least as calm, righteous, selfless and intelligent as you are.

            I most certainly am. I’m also done with you. But I will not wish you a nice life. Instead, I’m going to call you out on what you are doing, which is known as ‘being a sanctimonious prick’. Since you’ve failed to grasp the meaning of just about every other word I have written, here’s a brief definition:

            “Derogatory. Making a show of being morally superior to other people.”

            Leave. It. Out. Mate.

    • Again, this is why I have long asserted that it is the personal responsibility of every man to bring about a change in culture. To change the behaviour of other men.

      As has been said many times, every time we accept a rape joke, every time we accept other men making sexist comments, every time we stand by and do nothing when we see harmful behaviour we contribute to rape culture.

      In that sense, it seems to me (not sure if there are any reliable figures on it) that most men have contributed to rape culture at some point. Some time they have accepted rape as being normal, something to laugh about.

      I am deeply ashamed to admit I have been that person. Perhaps that is just another reason why I take it so personally.

      And again as I have said many times, if anyone thinks one person speaking up achieves nothing, I say that every single actioned take, every word we use has an impact.

      I challenge all men to take this up. To be accountable. To be strong enough to take on the responsibility without fear and with sufficient sense of self to rise above how they feel, to put their needs aside in favour of changing society for the better. Sadly, very few seem up to such a challenge.

      • Again, this is why I have long asserted that it is the personal responsibility of every woman to bring about a change in culture. To change the behaviour of other women.

        As has been said many times, every time we accept a rape joke, every time we accept other women making sexist comments, every time we stand by and do nothing when we see harmful behaviour we contribute to rape culture.

        In that sense, it seems to me (not sure if there are any reliable figures on it) that most women have contributed to rape culture at some point. Some time they have accepted rape as being normal, something to laugh about.

        I am deeply ashamed to admit I have been that person. Perhaps that is just another reason why I take it so personally.

        And again as I have said many times, if anyone thinks one person speaking up achieves nothing, I say that every single actioned take, every word we use has an impact.

        I challenge all women to take this up. To be accountable. To be strong enough to take on the responsibility without fear and with sufficient sense of self to rise above how they feel, to put their needs aside in favour of changing society for the better. Sadly, very few seem up to such a challenge.

        • Sure does. I can’t say that however. Because I’m not a woman, I wouldn’t dream of doing anything like that. It’d be too mansplainy.

          All people need to do this, but especially those who are so spectacularly predominant (used the word intentionally) in the offender stats.

          I can only challenge my own demographic to follow suit. ;-)

          In the same way that white people need to be accountable for the violence against people of colour. Cis people need to be accountable for the violence against trans* people, het folk accountable for violence against queer folk, etc.

          It kinda counters the privilege ppl like me (height of privilege being white, het, cis, married, homeowner, middle class male) with responsibility. But only kinda. And we of the kyriarchy have to take that responsibility seriously.

          Sound fair?

          • No. That sounds totally unhinged.

            White people are not accountable for violence against people of colour. Racists are accountable for racism.

            Cis people are not accountable for violence against trans people, het folk are not accountable for violence against queer folk. Bigots are accountable for bigotry.

            Men are not accountable for sexual crimes against women. Rapists are accountable for rape.

            You need to be held accountable for the sexism engendered (highlighting your own word-play is the lowest form of wit) in your anti-male, false-empathy-ridden, right-up-on-your-high-horse bullshit. Where instead of ‘victim-blaming’, or, say, ‘rapist-blaming’, you appear to be blaming every single man who is not the rapist at hand. This solves nothing.

          • Fayre, why are you here?

            You seem to only want to pick a fight with people.

            And there is a little something you missed in your ranting. You and others have said something along the lines of “I’m not blaming them, just saying they need to be more responsible” referring to the dangers women face. I’m not saying they (men, etc) are to blame, only that they are responsible.

            We all have a responsibility to all people, to be a good person, to do as little harm as possible, to help others.

            Why do you have such a problem with members of a demographic being responsible for the whole? Do you not like the idea of actually facing up to things? Or is it that your sense of self is sufficiently fragile to not handle being in the same group as “bad people”?

            Far from being anti-male, it is about trying to create better men. Men who think about their actions and the impact they have on others. YOU have contributed to rape culture, so have I, and it is a pretty good bet we all have at some stage. The sort of actions I am talking about is being aware of this, being aware of how we have contributed to it, why it is wrong, and what we can do to change our selves. Still unhinged?

            People don’t rape out of nowhere. The impetus to do so comes from a societal attitude. The only way that changes is if people change their selves.

            And word-play is not the lowest form of wit. Unless you’re really crap at it. Y’know, it is quite funny that you should choose to mis-quote Oscar in this forum.

          • I’m not trying to fight anyone. I’m sorry if you feel threatened.

            Let me be clear with my words. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Everyone is responsible for their own safety. Men are not reponsible for rape.

            “We all have a responsibility to all people, to be a good person, to do as little harm as possible, to help others.”
            Yeah, actually, not a bad idea. So if you want to argue “everyone has a responsibility to help prevent rape by working to change attitudes towards it”, please do.

            I do not agree that you can make an entire gender guilty by genetic association. I think it sounds absurd. This is rhetoric that divides.

            As such I defy you to hold me responsible for a single act of rape. How do you justify your discrimination that leads to ‘all men’ in the same group as ‘bad people’? Or are you just outright calling me a rapist? My sense of self is certainly not fragile and I am certainly not a rapist.

            It is noble of you to be about creating ‘better’ men. I’m about creating better people. Better people who think carefully and sensibly and without hate. Who suffer neither fools nor rapists gladly. I have never impelled someone to rape.

            You’ll perhaps notice from my previous use in parenthesis of the phrase “highlighting your own word-play is the lowest form of wit” that I never held wordplay to be the lowest form of wit. Please read the actual words I write before
            you decry them as the bastardised half-quotation they are most likely to be.

          • fayre

            “I do not agree that you can make an entire gender guilty by genetic association. I think it sounds absurd. This is rhetoric that divides.”

            Why not? Women have been made to feel like second class citizens for several centuries.

  43. Wow… now we’re making jokes about rape. inappropriate. Women are being victimized and you’re making satirical humor about their abuse.
    There is only one group of people that are responsible for rape.
    Rapists.

  44. I think this holds for the current gun debate too. All the people protesting the ban of guns… All the recent shooters have been white men. Perhaps we ought instead ban white males in public spaces as this article points out, there’s plenty of evidence suggesting that it would solve a wide variety of social issues.

  45. You know, there is still a law on the books in New York City stating that a man caught checking out a woman can be forced to wear horse blinders.

  46. I think that this piece is appropriate and thought-provoking. Rather than trying to compare the crime of rape (usually reported as being against women) to that of a mugging or murder (perhaps more reported as being against men), consider the following gender-neutral scenario:

    You are going out with friends tonight. You wear an outfit that makes you feel handsome/pretty/confident/happy. You park close to the bar/venue. You have a drink or two but not so much that it would be unsafe for you to drive home. At some point in the evening, you are approached by an individual who is approximately one foot taller than you and approximately double your weight. This individual comments on how nice your butt looks in your pants/skirt/whatever or how perfectly that shirt accentuates your chest. This person comments in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable and objectified. This person continues to bother you despite your repeated assertions that you are not interested in them. This person may even grab your arm or physically violate your personal space bubble in a way that comes across as intimidating and threatening.

    I will obviously not go into the awful events that could potentially result from this encounter.

    Without necessarily bringing gender into the conversation, please consider how you might feel if you were in this scenario. You did not dress in an overtly or intentionally provocative manner; you parked close to the venue; you did not get overly inoxicated or uninhibited; yet, encounters like this one still happen.

    While some of you might be thinking, “Yes, but how often will I run into someone who is 6’10 and over 300lbs hitting on me aggressively at a bar?”; being 5′ tall, running into someone who is 6′ and 200lbs is a pretty common occurrence for me.

    The crime of rape is about power and physical dominance. I think it could be beneficial try to get people of all genders to empathize with victims and those more at risk (regardless of gender, age, status, etc) for these types of attacks and work towards constructive solutions and targeted blame towards true perpetrators.

    • i like your comment, and i can sign the last paragraph, but soon someone will point out that the agressive person “has to be a man” and then we know where this is leading to.

      hopefully more will understand why this is the only way to go, if you want to chage things. not by hatred and blaming, but love and understanding. everyone can empatize with the victims, and if people don’t, you can explain them why they should.

      but blaming all by default, won’t make them join the cause, they will be defensive and wanna tell you, why they are not reason for this. And you – knowing the world better than everyone else – will get angry, arguing and saying something offensive, like they don’t “get it”, implying they are blind or stupid. But maybe you are blinded by a false reality, too. Maybe it’s not “so clear”, your “obvious” picture of the world. and maybe you only search for every glimp, every wrong wording in someonce unthoughtful daily talk, to judge him/her as whatever you want him/her to be … confirming yourself, that you are right.

      maybe everyone should think a minute or two, what drives them to be here, right now. Is it a positive or negative mindset, writing your posts? Be always open for new points of view, maybe they change yours, too. I havn’t read a single comment glorifying rape around this topic, ever, not her nor in forums. So one could come to the conclusion, that everyone her should be on the same side. Maybe act like that, dear internet people …

      • most aware comment I’ve read here…thank you

        personally, I’m here because I was the victim of sexual assault, which very much distorted my perspective on sexuality, such that, there was a time in my life, where, had I allowed it, I might have become a rapist. luckily, I had an epiphany, a moment of deep connection with all humanity, and after that, I could never rape someone. I’ve spent the last 10 years working through these deep sexual issues, the last 4 of them with a patient, loving woman who has loved my unconditionally, even when my behavior was echoing past trauma. I’m extremely invested in compassionate dialogue between both sides of any blame dialogue, and I guess I’m attracted to conversations about rape because it is one of the most polarizing, emotional topics on the board, which makes attempting to bridge it an incredibly challenging (and therefore in my mind, worthwhile) affair. like others here, I’m torn between a fascination with emotion and drama, and a sincere craving for truth and understanding.

        so, yeah, I’d love to know what draws everyone else here too. perhaps sharing our experiences and motivation could bridge this seemingly unbridgeable divide we’ve created through our generalizations and emotional reactions.

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    • “Have yet to rape anyone” I think tells the world a great deal about you.

      That and the fact you obviously haven’t read any of the comments and are incapable of identifying satire.

      Oh and believe me, if you think THIS is extreme, you’ve led a very sheltered life.

      • You clearly can’t identify satire seeing as you took the “yet to rape anyone” line as being serious.

        Yes I know there are more extreme feminists out there, and I still think they are fucked in the head too.

        • Alix, read the above sections. Gravy is an empassioned individual without the ability to read what people actually write. he likes to paint everything with his own assumptions. it’s better to move on…really.

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  52. This is brilliant! I love love love it. Anyone who is arguing against this beautiful satirical piece it doesn’t know what it’s like to live with the nagging fear of being raped in the back of their mind. To be told what you can and cannot do for fear of someone else’s actions. To be told that you need to limit yourself and choices because someone else can’t stop their violent crimes.

    And as for why this piece doesn’t address the rape of men — men don’t live with that fear! They haven’t lived their whole lives with the fear of being sexually assaulted. Sexual assault by women is an issue that needs to be addressed, but this piece is specifically focused on addressing the fear that female are taught to live with and are oppressed by. Just because the piece doesn’t cover EVER related topic doesn’t mean it’s discounting other issues.

    Great job, Amanda!

    • In most cases, you’d be correct, men (except the ones that have been raped) don’t fear rape every time that they have an encounter with a woman. Men fear false accusation of rape / sexual assault, which happens fairly often. Men fear being murdered, or being disposable (having to die for someone). Men fear having their children taken from them in court, even if their ex is an unfit mother since divorce law heavily favors the mother. Men have quite a few gender / sex based fears that correlate directly with this piece of misandry.

  53. It’s really sad that people still believe this crap – how you dress affects the likelihood of someone raping you. Some of you might see what I did with that sentence construction.

    I missed the 2012 Slutwalk, but did attend the inaugural one here. There were two women walking behind me. One was wearing a business suit, the other pajamas and a dressing gown. Because that was what they were wearing when somebody raped them.

    The moment you bring clothing into it, or the amount you drink, or flirting, or where you walk or when, you ARE blaming the victim. Claiming you don’t has no bearing on the matter. By offering such sound advice, you are saying…clears throat… “If you do this, and do not do that, then you reduce the risk of being attacked” you are saying “if you don’t follow my white knight saviour advice, then you are bringing it on yourself” and you are utterly missing the very point of the blog post.

    • “If you do this, and do not do that, then you reduce the risk of being attacked”

      “If you eat lots of apples, and do not smoke, then you reduce the risk of being ill.”

      There is no blame being attributed with these words. Apples and smoking are not the only contributing factors to disease.

      Nobody is making the assertion that clothing is the only contributing factor to rape. One of the main factors is obviously going to be “proximity to rapists”.

      I would suggest that the degree of male attention a woman receives could be linked to the manner in which she is dressed. If such a link exists, it is not unreasonable to state “scantily clad women are more at risk from male sexual predators”.

      You may not apply your logic to extend this position to “I blame women in pretty clothes for rape”.

  54. personally…I’m fine with the idea. men stay indoors and cook and clean and women go out and run the world. sounds fine by me. that’s already how I live. I’m the househusband and she’s the bread winner. works for me. I imagine that women are going to get annoyed about having to support all the men, since the men won’t be able to work. we won’t be able to do the shopping either, or errands in town. I guess we’ll have to stay in all day and play video games and eat stuff.

    come on guys…lets do it. let the women run the world, as long as they support our existence. seems only fair. we ran the world while they stayed at home for a while, why not switch it up?

    btw…this seems like sarcasm, but its not. I already live this way. where my wife and I live, I am not legally allowed to work, and we haven’t been here long so I have no friends here, I don’t know how to drive, and its winter. so yeah…I’ll stay inside while you lovely women run the world. to be honest, I think you’ll do a better job than I did. hopefully you guys can end poverty, war and all that jazz.

    meanwhile…good luck convincing the rest of the men. I’m sold.

    • Good luck with that idea. Have you seen when women get together in large groups? It’s the the ultimate backstabbing bitchy catfight against eachother.

      • my experience differs from yours friend. my experience of women is that they collaborate extremely well except when they are in contention over men. then again, I’m from an area of fairly high affluence (SF Bay Area/Berkeley) where things might be skewed by a general cultural lean towards progressive views. all in all, dude…I’d suggest that this isn’t the forum for making wild generalizations about women. I don’t enjoy reading them anymore than wide generalizations about men. I’d advise you take them elsewhere, or, better, reexamine them to determine if they are true, and if not, drop them altogether.

  55. Dear Commenters:

    PLEASE STOP USING WIKIPEDIA as a reference for statistics. Wikipedia is not a reliable source of this type of information. Here are a few things you should know about this topic, and all criminological data:
    1.) Much of crime goes unreported/undocumented. This means that official statistics are under representative of the actual number of rapes, for example; the same rule applies to other types of crime, property crime, violent crime, financial crime, etc.
    2.) Let’s not diminish the severity of the “sexual assault problem,” simply because the terminology is far-reaching. Yes, the term “sexual assault” can be used to describe a number of acts. In the interest of clarity, I would encourage folks to define what form of sexual assault you are discussing to avoid confusion. Please note that when I say “sexual assault” I am referring to a few very specific acts, limited to forcible fondling and/or penetration of any kind. This could be acts committed against a victim, or acts that a perpetrator forces a victim to commit, against his or her will.
    3.) There are some ultimate truths about sexual assault (please see my preferred definition above). First, children of both sexes are victimized at about the same rate (pedophilia: pre-pubescent). As males and females age, there is a shift toward increased female victimization, and decreased male victimization (hebephilia: teen/pubescent). This gap continues to widen, until approximately age 23 or 24, when male victimization virtually disappears. When considering these “ultimate truths” it becomes apparent that adult females are the group that is disproportionately impacted by sexual assault.
    4.) My preferred definition of sexual assault and assertions about age and gender were specific and deliberate. I would like to acknowledge that some statistics do not differentiate between “unlawful” and “forcible” intercourse. Unlawful intercourse refers to the issue of LEGAL consent. For example, in the state of California the age of consent is 18. That means that a 17 year old could willfully engage in sex, but it is still not considered “consensual” under the law (this is what “statutory rape” means). There are also other circumstances that may result in unlawful, but not forcible, intercourse. For example, college students getting drunk and “hooking up” is technically unlawful, because intoxication negates consent under the law. This creates a serious gray area in the statistics, and in criminal courts around the country. It is the responsibility of men and women, and their sexual partners, to ensure that all parties are coherent enough to consent. Forcible intercourse is what most people imagine when they hear the term “rape,” as it implies that there is a clear perpetrator and victim, and that the sex was not consensual AND it was against the victim’s will (there is a difference, see above).
    5.) The majority of perpetrators are male. Yes, some perpetrators are female, but they are far less likely to commit sexual assault than males. This could be for a number of reasons, but a few examples include biology (we aren’t as physically strong), and culture (consider gender norms; females are to be meek/passive, males are to be aggressive/macho).

    Now, we could go round and round about the actual rate of sexual assault, the proportion of the male population that are rapists, etc. But the bottom line is this: women (adult females) are drastically and disproportionately impacted by rape, and men (adult males) are almost always the perpetrator. This is indicative of a culture of misogyny, a culture of rape, and it is offensive the males and females alike. Women must be ever-aware of threats, and men are constantly subjected to the judgment and fear of others. Rape impacts us all.

    If you are wondering about my authority on this subject, or wondering where my list of basic information comes from, please know that I am a criminologist by trade. I have an advanced degree and am employed in the field.
    For further information please look up the National Crime Victimization Survey, or visit the FBI or CDC websites. When reviewing statistics, please be aware of the age-range included in studies (NCVS includes respondents age 12 and up, which means males are overrepresented, given the “ultimate truth” about gender/age). Please also consider the type of data collection and study design. Anonymous, random, self-report data tends to be the most accurate, but other statistics rely on police reports and/or filed criminal cases. This is why there are such wild fluctuations in the statistics.

    • wow…thank you for clarification. I love it when people bring direct data to the discussion. just curious…does your data include male on male rape in prison populations? I’ve read material that suggests that the greater portion of rapes in the US occurs in the prison system, but I suppose that could be false. more likely, no one is sure.

      I haven’t seen anyone disagree that there is a culture of misogyny. I certain don’t disagree. the contention seems to be whether or not every man is personally responsibly to change every other man. personally, I agree that the problem is mostly cultural, but I don’t see it as being particularly derivative of only male cultural effects. to me, that position underplays the role of women on the formation and distribution of cultural norms. of course, this conversation rarely takes into account the wide cultural differences between radically different ethnic and religious cultures that needs to be understood to really get a grasp on it.

      moreover, a lot of men like me really feel that we are doing all that we can, and get frustrated by accusations from women or other men suggesting that we are enabling rapists, despite the accusations having little to no evidence of our personal lives. probably, this would lead to a poignant revelation if we were men who believed the perspective that this post is lampooning (namely that women should be forcibly controlled in order to prevent rape), but I’ve seen almost no one put forth the idea that any external agency should implement controls on women in order to bypass the hard question of dealing with rape.

      we’re all pretty aware that men are more prone to violence than women, even when we’re indignant to being thrown into the same pool as serial rapists. very few of us men feel nervous around women in the same we do around men. many of us learned quite early that men can be prone to violence. many of us are prone to our own controlled violence, that we try to channel into non-victimizing behaviors. perhaps if we were the other audience of men, the one’s not reading this article because they’re too busy scouting out women to bother, the comments here would open our eyes, but for many of us, the continued comments of ‘you don’t get it’ and such merely reinforce the impression that this is a polarized debate in which we are assumed to be intellectually, emotionally, and empathetically inferior. unfortunately, that is not productive in itself, of dialogue.

      so, I agree with everything you’ve said…what does that mean for us as a society when it comes to preventing rape?

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  57. “And since 1 in 6 American women are raped in their life time, (1 in 3 Canadian women)”

    You sure love raping statistics for your own ends. The other emotional gut-punch number that gets thrown around is “a woman in the US gets raped every two minutes”.

    Dismiss the “that poor woman” snickers and assume it’s plural. Then get a calculator and try to reconcile the two estimates. Not even in the same city, let alone ballpark.

    Exaggeration of rape statistics ultimately only has one result – it trivialises what is a horrid crime and pisses on the genuine victims. Grow up.

    • 1/two minutes = 262,800/year

      If (god(s) forbid) every woman in the US was to be raped exactly once in their lifetime, there would be 150 million rapes over the average lifespan of about 80 years. 150 million/80 = 1.9 million/year

      If 1 in 6, or 25 million women, are raped exactly one in their lifetime, there would be 1.9/6 = 312,500 rapes per year.

      Problem?

  58. Why don’t we just focus on making sure we get help for survivors,so that more rapes get reported and how about we focus on tougher laws for rape and sexually related crimes.

    • would the tougher laws include sending more rapists to prisons to rape and be raped there? because I’m not sure that would end rape…what with the additional raping going on in prison.

      our way of handling the victim is screwed up. our way of handling the offender is screwed up. it basically all comes from our social desire to wash our hands of this uncomfortable issue rather than look deeply into it, and deal with ALL the humans involved with compassion.

      • Ummm rape will never end just like any crime will never completely go away and there is no possible way to make them go away.We can only hope to lower the rate that it happens.

        Having tougher laws and making sure rapist actually get the time they deserve will bring justice to the victim.
        And rapist don’t deserve compassion they did a horrible crime that they didn’t have to commit, No amount of therapy or “teaching” them not to rape will stop that because they were fully aware what they were doing was wrong.

        • In what way does “rapist suffering in jail” equate to ‘bringing justice to the victim’?

          And do you, on the other hand, deserve compassion on account of your higher morality? Having never done any bad things you didn’t have to do?

          • What do you mean? It’s obvious isn’t it having a rapist put where he belongs in confinement where he can’t hurt his victims or any more potential victims again.

            Compassion? What does compassion have to do with this and morality has nothing to do with something thats just common sense. You make no sense.

  59. This article is a fearless step kept front for the issue growing all over the world. Really appreciate it…..!!
    All the men who are commenting, arguing and re-commenting long stories :
    First, if you have faced any sexual harassment from a woman, I agree she should get a punishment for that. Second, you should agree that 99% of sexual harassment from all around the world, are happening from men to women. If you keep arguing it’s not, then you are just trying to protect your own gender, blindly. Third, Though some of you try to convince that you are truly care about women, actually inside yourselves, you aren’t. Even here, you are trying to win over the arguments from women. Therefore please don’t try to pretend you are truly concern about women’s welfare. Talk to your heart and mind and see whether you are truly supportive in this very serious issue to protect women all over the world. Forth, If any man thinks that touching a woman slightly, pat the back, or saying silly joke, use provoking words in women in anywhere, is a small matter and is something to ignore, IT IS NOT. Do you know that small action gives a great impact on women? do you know how disgusting and embarrassing is that? do you know how pathetic it feels? do you know from that small incident her whole life can be changed? do you know that ignorance will lead to the final crime/ rape/sexual intercourse ? The harassment is always wrong from the beginning and not even a small step of abuse should leave as negligible.
    Men should get a good education about this matter and should improve with good morals. Men should learn to respect women. No one has a right to touch or insult anyone in wrong manner, even if a woman walks naked, no one has the right to abuse her. Everyone should learn to live in controlled mind. Severe punishments should give to those rapists. Here, I like to mention about the Indian incident since I’m from a neighbor country, those rapists must get the proper punishments and it will definitely give a good lesson to the world. I apologize for my bad English, Thanks.

    • learn to respect men, before you ask men to respect you.
      because judging from your text, you simply don’t.

      have a nice day.

      • just an idea:

        I really don’t care whether men respect me or not. I just want them to stop treating me as a second class citizen. When I can walk out my door and live my life as an equal, then we can work on that respect thing.

    • I understand where you’re coming from, and I have heard from many sources that sexual harassment is the daily reality for women in India. Also, if you can call out for help, no one wants to get involved in others’ business, so you will be ignored.

      But are you saying if a man debates with a woman, then he doesn’t respect women? It’s human nature to try to convince other people of our ideas. Men talking to women, women talking to men, women talking to each other, men talking to each other.

    • You do know that a rapist didn’t care about the what the victim wanted and if did he would have “respected women” in the first place

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  64. This is what happens when you let a Woman leave the kitchen and give her a writing job. She lashes out with ridiculous sexist comments. I mean take it easy you only started burning your bras like 50 years ago. Before that?? You were all set! No need to work or struggle. Just stay home all day! You want equality right? With jokes like the WNBA etc… Now you are fighting in wars as well? You wanted it now you got it so Shut up women and learn to defend yourselves if this is that large of an issue.

    They want you to stay in at night because YOU ARE WOMEN! unfortunately Genetically you are designed to birth children bitch and complain. And physically designed with minimal body mass and strength. There fore STAY HOME, Get funked and cook!

    LOL * silly women and their “Rights” if it was not for MEN you would have no COUNTRY! No Homes! No Cars! No Cities! Nothing!

    MEN GET SHIT DONE, DO IT RIGHT & LOOK OUT FOR YOU WOMEN! YOU OWE US! And if were not for our Big Ole Ball Bags full of life .. YOU WOULD NOT EXIST!!

    You are all MAN MADE!! BOOM!

    • OMG.

      YOU are the reason this country is in such a mess.
      YOU are the rapist that stands over your victims and laughs.
      YOU are the draft dodger too chicken to defend your country and stupid enough to demean women that do. You damn coward.
      YOU are the male chauvinistic pig we had to fight to even get the right to vote.
      YOU are the idiot who thinks you are god and you control life.
      YOU are the best argument for legalized abortion I have ever met.
      BOOM your ass.

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  67. Great idea! the only problem, women would never let it happen. Why do you think they dress in clothes that show the outline of their body, to trigger male interest, and get their attention.

    A bunch of blindfolded men is women’s worst nightmare.

  68. I loved this post, it completely shows how irrational it is to limit women freedom just because men cant keep it in their pants.

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    • Even without laws, that public perception is having an effect. I work at a school in the UK, and it is official policy that any field trip which involves girls will not be approved unless at least one female member of staff is included. There is no such rule for male staff being required for field trips involving boys.

      I have heard from many colleagues in different schools with similar rules, who say that they feel a not insignificant amount of suspicion on them as a man working with small children. This is at a time when (in the UK at least) men are increasingly under-represented in K-12 teaching, while a body of evidence is building that suggests children (boys in particular) suffer developmentally if they lack adult male role models. In my school, there are literally no male teaching staff from pre-K to grade 4, and despite being an affluent school we have plenty of children who rarely see their father (either through absence or work).

      There are other reasons of course, but the media-fuelled suspicion isn’t helping.

    • and I’m sure you would’ve thought a Modest Proposal a disgusting agenda of cannibalism. You do however get the award for Missing The Point and Being Part of The Problem.

      • Which problem are you talking about? If it’s misandry, then you are part of the problem.
        Are you talking about the problem of the amount of false accusations against men? Then you are part of the problem.
        Are you talking about stopping sexual assault and rape without considering all men potential rapists? Then there’s an actual problem that we can work together on.
        Modern feminism is doing far more harm than good with these kinds of articles.

        • This satire is appropriate because it’s very common to ask women to restrict their freedom to avoid being raped as if they were the problem. No harm is being done. And as for false accusations, did you think this through? did you compare the number of false accusations with the number of estimated unreported rapes? maybe you should do some research into the subject yourself.

          • Indeed, false accusations of rape are a horrible thing. But are we going to stop investigating all accusations because of it? I assume not. So, I suggest that false accusations of rape are a problem that needs to be addressed separately.

            Perhaps someone with an appropriate background can help me out:

            If rape becomes much more rare, would we be likely to see false rape accusations become more rare? I’d guess that currently, the fact that rape is so common is plays a part in making people feel they can succeed with false accusations.

  72. Unwise to Allow Men to Go Out Alone at Night?

    Okay I see the problem now. You must think men are allowed to go out alone at night. I’m not sure you completely understand what night is. Nobody owns the night. You can’t take the night back from the night. It’s the night.

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  74. Women who take precautions internalize 100% of the benefit.

    I don’t take my iphone out in sketchy parts of town because the benefit of this risk mitigating action is 100% internalized. I don’t understand why there is so much indignation to the suggestion that women can mitigate their risk by taking certain precautions. In a perfect world I should be able to have visible an item of value, however I understand the world is not perfect and take precautions. The cost of not taking these actions are 100% borne by me. It doesn’t mean I’m morally culpable if I am robbed with my iphone out.

    • Sure, I don’t walk down dark alleys, and stay alert when walking home in the dark (like at 6pm in winter on residential streets, it has to be done). I don’t go out on my own and get wasted. I lock my car doors when I’m driving. That reduces my risk of rape by strangers, i.e. by up to 25% (I say “up to” because these precautions are not foolproof).

      Indeed, there’s no reason to feel indignant about taking these precautions.

      There is reason to feel indignant about victims being blamed if they didn’t take these precautions (and this goes for victims of all crime). Unfortunately, this happens.

      As an aside, it’s a bit of a let-down how little protection these precautions provide. 40% of rapes occur at the victim’s home, and 20% occur at the home of a friend or relative. If women only ever left home to visit friends and family, they wouldn’t even reduce their risk by half.

  75. I’ve had 50+ room mates and I consider that a great lesson in human nature. It’s shocking to see that some people are far far away from your own moral values. In particular when I started reading the article and saw “unable to resist”, it sounded familiar. Many times I’ve heard “I can’t help it” instead the more accurate “I don’t give a rat’s ass about other human beings around me”. More often than not, it’s not that some primitive instinct takes over, it’s just an excuse when someone lacking empathy gets caught in the act.

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  78. Has anyone taken into consideration that sexual assaults of any kind are the most UNDER reported crimes therefore stats are not a true relection of how many women are assaulted each year.

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  80. See, articles like this is a great indicator why we should have revoked every female right and get them back to where they belong; The kitchen and the bedroom.

    This feminist-crapola has gone way too far, it’s gone from securing women equal rights, to attackin men and everything we stand for.

    Makes me puke.

  81. Thanks for the informative post – seriously, the satirical approach was a good reminder of things I already knew.

    That said, I see posts like this sometimes, and while they definitely increase my awareness of an issue I don’t consider that often, the only information these posts provide me is a reminder that there are bad people out there, as well as idiots who fail to see where the blame lies. As a man, beyond awareness and self-examination to ensure that my words and my behavior are realistic, appropriate and non-threatening, and beyond confronting friends if they talk like the idiots who inspired this post and/or exhibit threatening behaviors, is there anything I can (or should) do?

  82. Satire only has an effect on those who don’t already agree when it’s based in reality and not ridiculously stupid. Otherwise, as in this case, it’s just a circle jerk.

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  84. Just here to point out that the “Take precautions” advice really translates to “Make sure that the rapist chooses someone else.”

    It does nothing to actually reduce the incidence of rape.

    And most of the time the precautions don’t work.

    • Thank you!

      Also, some precautions are so unreasonable that I refuse to take them. Some (male) commentors here will think that’s a reckless attitude, but please think: whatever you would recommend to women, would you make that adjustment? If so, that’s fine.

      As I’ve said, I won’t walk down dark alleys in the middle of the night just to be indignant. But I won’t modify my life by leaving work before dark every day (regardless of season or what I’m working on), or by leaving social events before the bus frequency drops. I’m not even going to wear something other than what I feel like. Think about it. I won’t let the fear of rape degrade my life.

      In any case, these precautions can only be effective (if you’re lucky) against the minority of rapes that occur in these settings.

      40% of rapes occur in the victim’s home, but I don’t hear anyone urging women to avoid going home to reduce their chance of rape.

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  86. Excellent entry! Every time I read / hear “she was raped, because she was doing something wrong” I wish that person all the worst. Especially I wish him or her sudden enlightement and understanding why they were wrong

    • Maybe the only way for men get this might be to experience something a bit similar: Going through a street at the evening, suddenly being beaten half to death by a group of young men – just because of the colour of your skin – and then beeing told by the police:
      “Why do you dare to go out at night in this area all alone when you are black. Don’t you know? You were not carefull enough, you are a bit responsible as well.”
      AND CAN YOU IMAGINE: THIS HAS HAPPENED!!! not to me but to a friend of mine.

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  88. Has anyone actually blamed what a women was wearing for a rape? Not a “you should take precautions like covering up more” just a “you were raped/ you deserved to be raped because of your clothes”?

    • Some people do but its usually those backwards republicans like the ones who made those statements, like a woman has a mechanism to stop rape and even life created by rape is a gift from god that kind of stupid shit.

      But that’s not even a whole majority nor is it a popular way of thinking but because people want to stop rapist from using excuses like “Well she was asking for it look at what she wears”
      Feminist got confused.

    • If someone told me the first line, I’d still cut absolutely sick at them, because it’s not effective! Rapists plan to rape, they don’t suddenly decide to rape when they get a boner because of the victim’s lack of clothing. At most, rapists might think they’re more likely to get away with it if they choose the least-dressed woman, but if we all tried to cover up more than the next woman, we’d all end up in burquas.

  89. Actually not all rapist plan to rape and some of them do act on impulse, usually those kinds of rapist have a m.o akin to hair,clothing, eyes ect sorta similar to serial killers and such.

    Not saying its common for random encounter rapes but that’s usually what it boils down to. Now for rape by someone you either know thats close to home like family member or friend or acquittance wise well that isn’t necessarily planned either.

    Rapist rape for the power they’ll have over their victim,which can because of anger or sadism.
    There’s no way you can completely prevent rapist from raping but general warnings are mostly for random encounter rapes anyways.

    • Sorry, I exaggerated. Still, aren’t impulse rapes either a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Or as you say, m.o., which you can’t predict, and if it’s related to clothing is just as likely to be jeans and t-shirt, tracksuit, pyjamas, business attire, etc. as skimpy clothing?

      I find it disturbing that rapists aren’t laughed out of town if they say things like, “I wasn’t going to rape anyone, but then I saw a woman in a short skirt, and I needed to rape her.”

      Some people include “not wearing revealing clothing” on a list of precautions that they feel are reasonable. Sorry, no. Avoiding walking down dark alleys and not opening your house/apartment door to strangers late at night is reasonable.

      Some people draw analogies between wearing revealing clothes and walking around dodgy parts of town flashing your smartphone and other obvious signs of wealth. Sorry, no. The equivalent is being a woman in the vicinity of a rapist who rapes women.

      • Well of course its not just slutty clothing though its not like that can’t be contributer ever there’s never a way to fully prevent or stop rape.
        Well not walking down alley and not opening your for strangers isn’t going to guarantee it and even some feminist are content with that as being considered reasonable.

        and I’d say it can be used as an excuse in that situation but then it’s probably safe to say just being alone and a woman makes you an easy target in a doggy part of town.

  90. I understand this is satire, and I understand this is in reaction to a “blame the victim” reaction which is all too common (all too common in that ANY “blame the victim” response is wrong).
    That being said, I take some umbrage at the suggestion that the mainstream still blames women for rape if they dressed provocatively; I think, perhaps naively, that’s a thing of the past. Some, simian cave-dwelling creeps may talk this talk, but I think, again, perhaps naively, that the rest of us think they’re stupid jerks, about as stupid (though much more dangerous I admit) as people who say things like “all men are pigs”.
    Also, please instruct me here, where are there laws that restrict Women’s freedoms? (in western society, in context of this discourse)

    • And a follow up:
      I also take umbrage at the term “slutty clothing”.
      WTF does how you dress have to do with your promiscuity?
      Walking around in a bikini is inappropriate in most case, but it isn’t “slutty”.